Ham pr disasters 36! The clap backs continue!

[jeffgoldblum]

A continuation of our continuing discussion of our favourite private citizens! 😁

No. It isn’t derailment territory at all. I wasn’t bringing the subject of hereditary monarchy up out of the blue. I did so in response to Chrysanthemumsinpots point below,

It is a very legitimate point of discussion in relation to the ambivalence of Harry’s position because despite not being a working role, he remains a Prince, he is indisputably son of the monarch, and brother to the heir, and fifth in line to the throne and this is the sort of problem that arises when you have a hereditary monarchy. He is still HRH even though they were not meant to use that title.

I was replying to the following post:

Chrysanthemumsinpots · Today 10:32
Of course the King had to make it clear that H is a private citizen if H had been approaching organisations claiming some pseudo-royal standing!! And you can’t do that privately if you need huge diverse range of organisations to have this confirmed.

I merely pointed out that monarchists can’t have it both ways. You complain a lot about Harry but this precise situation is what happens when you have a hereditary system.

The fact that you don’t like this point doesn’t mean it qualifies as a derailment.

I agree. And I doubt Charles was even thinking in terms of "private citizens" vs "public figures" - his concern is working royal vs private citizen.

I do, however, think Harry may be trying to get himself defined as a "public figure" because he thinks that will force that RAVEC to take his demand for state-provided security more seriously, but I'm sure that they are already assessing it in a serious manner and have always done so. It's just that their assessment is not to his liking.

Many thanks blue for this information, I and I’m sure many others where not aware of this and it’s easy to attribute nefarious actions to something that is innocent when there is precedent set .

Why are you discussing this just in respect of Harry, not Samuel Chatto? Or Estella Taylor? Harry’s position is fundamentally no different to theirs.

I bet she doesn’t think that,

Thanks, bluegreygreen, that's yet another thing I've just learned, though I still think it's a risk to have charity and Harry anywhere near each other

I wonder if this particular "arm" of the whole thing is any more transparent, or does it come under the same sort of approach?

What position of Harry's do you think is legitimized?

I read it as a way of cutting down on admin.

H&M approach charities, hospitals, military etc. and offer to come over and wave at people. Harry is the King's son. So the charity goes to the palace and ask for guidance not wanting to offend either the son or the father. The palace says treat them as private citizens (so do whatever you would do if someone like David Attenborough offered to turn up to wave at people).

They get bored of saying this.

So they send out a general memo to everyone. 'Royal' visits, representative of the head of state in his role as dad of the country are booked and organized by the palace, usually in response to an invitation, or at the request of the government. If you haven't asked for one of us through official channels and had a formal response. It isn't anything to do with us.

Typical! From a cursory glance of this thread I have seen everything discussed from
trebuchets to George attending Cambridge but I didn’t see those points being challenged as being off point?

Ok I’m being polite!
yes you are derailing, yes it’s very clear why you are here , no I’m not interested in discussing anything that is unrelated to the main topic of this thread with you.

it is against guidelines to deliberately disrupt or derail a thread by completely changing the subject.

please engage with the actual topic of discussion ie Harry and Meghans pr disasters ( or not if you think their pr is good)

I don’t want to involve mn , we are all adults here.

I thought one of the huge advantages of Zara Tindall not having a royal title was that it meant she was free to do paid endorsements/brand ambassadorships and so on for various companies because there was no conflict of interest or suggestion that she represented the RF when doing them. I guess HAM haven't done advertising like this, so to speak, but they'll have promoted things like the Netflix show. I've never quite understood how it worked. They just can't use their royal titles to do it? Or can't use Sussex?

And the letter wasn't actually telling the children anything. It was telling the other addressees how to deal with the children if the children start demanding bobbies and curtseys and public money.
Typo

It wasn’t necessary to make it public. They have just stirred up more trouble for themselves focusing on the wrong thing.

If they really wanted to cut down on admin I am sure that BP have a long list of charities and military establishments available to them to whom they could have offered guidance.

Publishing this openly smacks of snarkiness. Not a good impression for the H of S imho.

We do have a constitutional monarchy.

The fact that one part of that structure (parliament) has not in recent times taken its responsibilities seriously does not mean that all the blame can be laid on another part (the monarchy).

Also - to avoid further derail, feel free to search my username and 'Erskine May'.

Of course it needed to be made public as they needed to tell the public.

The only one trying to have it both ways is Harry…
He’s not a working royal, because he chose not to be. Therefore he doesn’t get to playact at being one when all other revenue streams have run dry.
Where exactly is the confusion in that?

My eyes have rolled so far back into my head I’m having to sit down with a coffee as if I try to spatchcock the chicken that’s waiting for me I’ll chop my fingers off.
Please -stop trying to derail .

Of course it was done purely to “cut down on admin” 🤣
You must be nearly at the bottom of the barrel by now, surely?

Exactly.

The first paragraph:
Following the decision by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex to relocate to the UK, we have received a number of requests for Guidance. To help avoid doubt or confusion, The King has directed that the following information be shared.

It was sent to the government, to the military, and to Lords Lieutenant (representatives of the King across the country).
It was then made public so that charities, hospitals etc would be aware.

Is this a meta derail?

Of course it was!
It was having to be sent to hundreds of different public institutions/people.
It would have leaked so much much better to be open and transparent -or do you only want transparency in financial matters pertaining to the King?

We don’t know exactly what the straw was that made this statement necessary.
We don’t know who Harry or his ‘team’ (more eye rolling 🙄) had been approaching-but he really really has to be stopped.
This is simply the warning shot over the bow.
My concern is that he is too stupid to realise this.

Yes, it is,

Their accounts are available on the Charity Commission website.

We've still got the AMW squirrel to come.

And yet Zara Tindall does attend and help out on royal occasions from time to time, such as BP garden parties, Ascot, and she attended a state dinner in Australia I believe, which demonstrates that the interpretation of these rules is very flexible indeed when the RF want them to be.

At the same time she makes pots of money from private sponsorship which is why she and her dh are in Australia every new year representing the Magic Millions organisation.

Let’s be clear, the RF are all benefiting financially in some form or another whilst carrying out royal duties.

Whether that’s from tax payer money covering their luxury accommodation and clothing in the form of the sovereign grant , or from side hustles such as AMW used to carry out, or from peppercorn rents and letting out stables like Sophie and Edward, or from income from the Duchies that don’t pay corporation tax despite being a large proportion of their money coming from natural assets (wind power) often derived from state organisations such as the NHS or the army.

This HIHO nonsense is a complete fiction!

My point is that they are singling out Harry when they are all at it in some form or another.

They could go the whole hog and title themselves King Harry and Queen Meghan, it would go down well with some of the rest of the world.

Archive links

DM Ukraine charity bash https://archive.is/8kbAI

Emma Brockes Guardian https://archive.is/EGUUs