Celeb Big Brother Thread 5 - So, let's talk about ME. ME, me, me, me, me...

[AnneEyhtMeyer]

Time for yet another thread...

@Missrabbitneedsabreak you said
I've just listened to a really interest (feminist) podcast on the whole gender labelling debate and it's very different to what has been expressed on here.

Which podcast is this? I'd be interested to listen.

Just catching up on bbbots

Arghhhh at "your daughter India". Daughter? DAUGHTER??!!! 🙄

I know that must sting deep down Beyond. I wonder does IW still go by dad? How can that change? I know they are estranged from their son but if she insists on being called daughter, then what is her parenting name?

I think if it were my dad, I'd have to go with their new name, if they absolutely would not have dad well no, if my dad tried to gaslight me like that I'd cut him out No way would I insult my mum by calling him mum

My child I think I'd have to go with "my child". I couldn't call my son my daughter.

I could never call my dad 'mum' I guess at a push I'd have to call them by their new name.

@MadamMinacious it's the guilty feminists. I think it was episode 64. They touch on this in quite a few episodes though. The show I refer to wasn't entirely about that but did go over a few issues relating to that theme

Ah the guilty feminists - I've listened to that podcast before. I wasn't that keen last time I listened but I'm always open to hearing other views, means you keep questioning your own (something I think is important). I'll have a listen on that way to work this evening. Thank you for responding.

Hooray!! I’ve found you

The first Guilty Feminists opened with a section on why they were "bad feminists", I rolled my eyes so hard.

It, thankfully, got a bit better after that, but it just felt really superficial.

The first Guilty Feminists opened with a section on why they were "bad feminists", I rolled my eyes so hard.

I listened to (most) of that one. I ended up switching it off. I'll try the episode Missrabbit mentioned and see in the interests of hearing view opposing my own.

They always start with that segment. It's lighthearted / tongue in cheek. I think the joke is that if you analyse everything we do much of it could be called "unfeminist". Much of the show is stand-up and there's comedy running through it. That approach might not be everybody's cup of tea if you prefer a wholly more serious discussion. Lots of it makes me laugh, some of it educates me / makes me think and some of it brings tears to my eyes. I don't agree with everything they say, but I enjoy listening to it in the car

@LaconicIcon with regard to IW ‘choosing’ one of 10,000 vulvas:

Inspired by recent debate, I spent a while on Google this week looking up how both MtF and FtM operations are done, including some medical journals with step by step photos. I have only one word for the surgery: barbaric. It is so very invasive, that if I weren’t made of stronger stuff I would find what I have seen and read about, quite harrowing.

I am sure there is every chance that IW discussed ‘ideal outcomes’ but from what I have learned, the surgeons very much have to ‘make do’ with what skin, fat and muscle is already there, meaning that ultimately any ‘preference’ must be overruled by what is actually possible from a surgical perspective.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5261821/Transgender-Big-Brother-2009-star-Rodrigo-Lopes-dies.html

Morning Everybody and Greetings new thread joiners

@Tippexy that whole discussion is one of the things I found offensive. The whole 'designer vagina' obviously named for its rhyming parlance is actually FGM. I never thought I'd hear a conversation about male preferences as if they like a woman, personalities match, think she has a great figure, all those things they might think about and then wham err, no sorry, not that keen on the style of your intimate body parts India saying that the surgery was no worse than a trip to the Dentist and the apparent choosing of a vulva/vagina whatever she wants to call it, being like picking a new hairstyle? well, I have no words.

If the powers that be are actually reading, then Dear @channel5 WRT BOTS and 'India isn't here to defend herself' then what actually is the point of the show until you've got evictees in the studio? None of them are there to answer points made about them, but the entire series is there to discuss what housemates say and do according to what you choose to show the audience. It's about interpretations and opinions.

People rarely have any right to reply to the media unless it's something actionable and they can afford to pursue. At least BB housemates do get interviewed when they come out and can address anything the producers feel necessary.

Remember Rodrigo who loved the queen. Was very sweet.

Mourning all

So sad to read that

However, I still think IW is a total wanker.

I'd heard that Chip very sad. When on BB he seemed a sweet chap.

Thinking about my own situation, if one of my DCs was transgender and went the whole way, I'd respect that and refer to my son as my daughter, but at the same time would want to reserve the right to still remember and talk about the child I gave birth to and raised.

I've seen very little about India in this regard apart from one mention of the fact that the marriage broke up either after three years or when their son was three. It was after that that Jonathan worked away during the week and lived as a woman with a totally different name to what they have now. The articles then go on to say she's a single mother. Most articles seem to cut and paste the same bits of information or quotes.

I would find that incredibly hurtful and disrespectful. I don't believe you have to give birth to be a mother but I don't think you can father a child, raise said child almost to adulthood and then decide 'I'm your mother now' As the child I'd be hurt and confused. I'd hope I'd accept the being a woman, but I don't think I could ever accept the denial of my parentage and childhood or that my father had 'always been a woman'

The demand to be called mother, when they pubicaly become TIMs, just shows the total narcissism of these men. IW's feelings were more important than the child's mother and the poor innocent child.

To be fair @Positively PERF India is on record as saying both his (Jonathan's)ex wife and son 'are very supportive'

If I channel my inner Rylan though, it's also fair to point out that the former Mrs Willoughby doesn't appear to be anywhere I can find as saying anything at all and his (Jonathan's) son is apparently estranged from India now.

PositivelyPERF

However, I still think IW is a total wanker.

Enrique IW has also stated that IW has a phobia with drag queens, and we know how honest that was. Then there was the lie about Anne's bed. Not to mention the book of vaginas. The fact that IW's son has nothing to do with him, would suggest that IW's poor wife and child was not as supportive as IW makes out.

Ah such sad news about Rodrigo Lopes. One of my favourites from that year.

No matter how distasteful the chat about designer vaginas was, India is an adult who had comprehensive counselling and elected to have that operation.
FGM is a barbarism which still mainly involves unsterile rudimentary instruments, no pain relief, inflicted on terrified young girls. The aim is to take away pleasure and to disfigure. It kills.

Please.