Do you think dressage is cruel?

[mummytelling]

I am watching this thinking these horses do not look comfortable at all and am aware of things that have been uncovered in the past. How is this still allowed to continue? Surely a horse doesn't behave this way without some form of cruelty or coercion in training?

animals shouldn't be involved in modern day Olympics

It looks cruel. And like a pointless waste of everyone's time.

But I don't know enough about horses or dressage to have an informed opinion.

Yes.

I don't care for any animal trained to do tricks, be it horses, dogs or anything else for that matter.

This. I would not go to a circus that involved using animals, as I know that they are not performing due to the love of it, and would have been trained using not very kind methods. How is this different?

I can only speak from my experience, but when I was learning to ride on a friend's horse, she was training her other for dressage. She adored those animals! She was so gentle and they respected her in return. I never saw any cruelty and I was there every day for a couple of years (until another friend offered me her youngster to ride...one fractured spine later after he saw a squirrel, threw me and tap danced on my back...!).

Obviously, I only had limited experience, but I never saw anything untoward and those horses loved her as much as she loved them.

How to tell me you know nothing about horses without telling me you know nothing about horses OP.

I'm not a big fan of dressage as I find it dull, but these are highly trained athletes (the horses), who are highly skilled at movements that developed out of military training. Do you also disagree with dog agility classes or sheepdog training?

I totally condem cruel methods of training - I trained in natural horsemanship (which involves no violence, whips etc) - and it is totally possible to train a horse to the highest level without coercion.

No I don't think it's cruel.

I haven’t seen the dressage but watched a lot of the showjumping and cross country, and was surprised at how chilled the horses seemed considering how fit they must be, and the crowds etc. If you look at their ears and general body language they didn’t seem unhappy or uncomfortable.

I don’t think you can force a horse to perform consistently at that level if it doesn’t want to.

All that being said most of my horse experience involved a Fell pony who once managed to get a mouthful of grass on the way over a cross country jump so I’m probably not qualified to comment!

There were a lot of interesting contributions on the Dujardin thread which is now full, I'm not horsey and found it very enlightening.
Having watched some of the dressage yesterday, I wondered why the horses' mouths are open so much, they don't look comfortable, as if their reins are being used to pull their chins in. When they walk normally they don't look like this. Can any horsey folk explain?

certainly at lower levels and done correctly, no- I used to ride fairly seriously and did quite a lot of dressage and would say it’s usually probably the least cruel equestrian sport- you’re looking for genuine harmony between horse and rider and that’s best achieved through gentle cooperation not coersion and cruelty.

However, since the news about CdJ I’ve become more cynical about whether this approach is always applied at the top level (or by everyone at lower levels). I felt the same about Mark Todd in relation to eventing and know lots of other people did too- that it was such an unexpected shock that it was hard to go back to taking things on trust.

Then there’s the question of whether all riding is intrinsically exploitative - I don’t think so but I also don’t think it’s a silly question.

Have you ever tried to get a horse to do something it doesn't want to do? No.

They are a prey animal, and fear induces a flight response. It doesn't induce the sort of controlled moves that dressage horses do. They don't think like humans (or indeed dogs, come to that), and are not able to associate punishment with the demand to do something. They just become frightened and try to run away.

Most of the moves carried out by dressage horses (and those such as performed by the Spanish Riding School of Vienna) are ones they are already physically capable of, and will often do of their own accord anyway. All the years of repetitive training does is to ask them to do it in a co-ordinated manner.

And do they enjoy all the years of repetitive training and doing those natural moves in a coordinated way? Or would they be happier without the training and doing those moves as and when they felt like it in a natural way?

I don’t think it’s especially cruel.
we treat animals abominably for food every day, these horses are incomparably fortunate in comparison.

You may also be interested to know that equestrianism is the only Olympic sport in which men and women compete aginst one another on completely equal terms in every event.

I’m an equestrian and I’m not especially fond of dressage. I like a natural head carriage in a horse and know what some riders do to achieve this outline.

You could ask the same of Guide dogs for the Blind, or any other trained animal.

I could do, but it'd be quite odd on a thread about dressage!

No more so than any other equestrian sport.

Animals should be banned from all sport. As soon as money is involved it becomes corrupt and not in the best interests of the animals.

Thanks for all your responses. Really interesting, made me think especially as such a variety of opinions on this.

No it's not cruel. These horses have been bred with dressage in mind for generations and if you were to see them move naturally in the field they would trot and canter as they do in the arena. These horses are very intelligent animals and are at their best with a job to do. Most people in the horse world treat their animals with greatest respect. Sadly some feel the need to use awful methods and the fei is getting better at spotting horse welfare cases. These horses are athletes within themselves and if you were to see them out of work they are very clearly stressed, bored and unchallenged. They're bred with the job in mind not just a random horse bought and whipped to make its feet flick out, I've worked with dressage horses and they all prance around like that in the field it's their natural way

No. I am an amateur dressage rider; my horses want for nothing and are trained with compassion and love. If one of my horses doesn't enjoy dressage, we do something else.

I have finished up watching a bit of this by default as I have been chasing the men's tennis final round the airwaves - driving me nuts!

It is horrible to watch - I like to see animals being animals with their wonderful elegant natural movement. This is pretty grotesque. Don't really see it as a sport or relevant to the Olympics.

No. If you've ever tried to get half a ton of chestnut gelding to do something it doesn't want to, you'll know it isn't cruel.

😁