Do you think dressage is cruel?

[mummytelling]

I am watching this thinking these horses do not look comfortable at all and am aware of things that have been uncovered in the past. How is this still allowed to continue? Surely a horse doesn't behave this way without some form of cruelty or coercion in training?

Probably is cruel, it's certainly boring as fuck

My daughter's horse loves doing it, they've got a very close bond and all the training has been gentle and compassionate. They're a great team who genuinely have fun together.

She's also the most stubborn creature in the world and if she doesn't want to do dressage that day, it's not happening.

I don't agree with some of the methods you see at the top of the game though, and I have seen some absolutely unforgivable treatment of horses in my time around them. As with all things, there are those that do it well, and those that brute force it. Unfortunately without proper training regulations, brute force is easier and less time consuming than gentler training. It's sad because a happy working relationship with a horse is a blessing.

Frequently yes, especially as levels progress. So are other equine sports/ areas of competition too.
Whilst every horse owner has the possible potential for cruelty (as we all do with pets, children, caring for others etc) competition brings out the worst in some people and trainers and those winning prizes often use any method to win their rosettes/cups/ sponsorship.

Some people are cruel to animals, some are cruel to children, some people lose their temper, some people use shortcuts to get what they want. It’s absolutely right they don’t get away with it. Everyone I know was shocked by the CDJ video - as in “What the hell did she think she was trying to achieve…!!!” So at top level competition I think the FEI need to be very vigilant.

No, I don’t think dressage is cruel. It’s a basic system for training horses, just communication. I’ve bred and trained two foals up to average local riding club competitions level.

I carry a whip when I’m hacking out, and have occasionally smacked my mare on her shoulder with it - to point out that I’d rather she didn’t do a huge sideways cat leap in front of an oncoming car just because there’s a suspicious looking plastic bag in the hedge. I don’t think there were any hard feelings either way.

Agree with above poster that animals have no place in sport.

No, I don’t think it’s cruel.

I think riding on the back on any animal with a piece of metal through their mouthes to force them this way or that is cruel.

I know nothing about horses but it looks cruel to me. That video of the rider whipping the horse to make him lift his legs higher made me wonder whether that is how most horses are trained for dressage despite the out cry at the time. Because the moves they have to do are not natural for a horse

I used to ride horses.

all dressage riders are doing is improving their skills. All riders walk, trot, and canter their horses. It doesn’t require whipping and punishments.

these Olympic grade horses are athletes and are treated as such. They’re worth millions. They have the best vet care, the best feed, water therapies, the very best tack, rugs, they receive massages, regular farrier visits and exemplary dental care…

they are not abused. They are highly trained.

focus your attention on those stuck in a field in the middle of January getting rained on with no rug, surrounded by mud and no grass, a bale of hay if they’re lucky, dreaming of the Grand Prix horse’s heated stable, red light therapy and daily grooming.

Exactly. Come back and comment on what goes on at Appleby Fair if you're interested in horse welfare.

I noticed they all had short reins pulling on their mouths too. I was watching it earlier today. One horse looked like it was foaming at the mouth.

I think top level dressage is cruel. What happens at elite level is not necessarily replicated at grass roots. As soon as money is introduced into horse sports unfortunately exploitation of these beautiful animals follows. Endurance in the Middle East is another example, where there are vast sums of money involved & it bears no relation to the UK national level sport.

Charlotte D was operating under huge financial pressure and the thing is she got results- so don’t tell me you can’t force horses to perform because plainly you can. Sadly she is not an outlier - cruelty is baked into top level dressage where riding behind the vertical is regularly rewarded.

I think it would do the sport a favour if it was out of the Olympics, it definitely needs a reset.

I don’t know about cruel, but they (horse and rider) look bloody stupid. What’s with the silly clothes? Why does the rider get the medal? How is this sport?

I thought there were some beautiful tests today. Most riders are reacting to the close scrutiny of the sport (not just in the last couple of weeks but Helgstrand etc) and many are noticeably riding in a softer frame.

Judges need to reward harmony and not just the big names, but I don’t think they are quite there yet.

All the talk of ‘unnatural’ movements… all of these movements are training the horse to take more weight on its powerful hind end, lifting the front through engaging the core. The horses in the sport today are bred for this to come easier to them. Any horse will do a passage trotting around the field excited.

Dressage training absolutely doesn’t have to be cruel. I hope that it will continue to improve as more light is shone on methods used. I hope it’s enough for horse sport to stay in the olympics.

Also to add, it’s ok not to understand a sport but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a sport. I was sat watching some of the dressage today in a gym cafe while my DD was swimming, and heard all of the ‘it’s all the horse’ ‘the rider isn’t doing anything’ ‘why doesn’t the horse get the medal’ comments.

Riding a horse at this level is a huge physical exertion and requires using your body in incredible precision. Aids are from your individual fingers, wrists, core, seat bones, thighs, calves, feet, movement of weight.

If you exercise and wonder what is required to ride a horse, try doing a plank for 5 mins with all limbs suspended on a TRX, and I think that would give you a starting point of how much core strength it takes to ride a horse like this.

It's not necessarily cruel, but the lovely horses I keep at home mostly just want to eat grass. They humour me when I am schooling them, but I have never seen any of them do a dressage test off their own bat.

Thanks again for all these replies on both sides of the argument. Has been really interesting for me to see both perspectives and also really appreciate those who are experienced with horses giving such detail on the sport in your replies. I've learnt alot today!

Animals shouldn't be kept as pets either

I don't think dressage as a sport/discipline is cruel, no. It's very possible to practice dressage in a kind and respectful way, through more evolved and force free training methods.

However I do have concerns that animal abuse is very likely in high pressure competitive situations. Gymnastics used to be the same in the 1980s - horrendous cases of physical abuse of children in pursuit of medals.

There's also regressive rules in dressage competition - for example, competitors aren't allowed to compete bitless (without a metal bit in the horse's mouth) even though there are now plenty of riders demonstrating that it's possible to perform dressage without a bit.

It really isn't. You use subtle body movements to enable the horse to react

I ride and own a horse. You couldn't get a horse to perform those movements if he/she were not cooperative. Partnerships between horses and riders are so close and based on a lot of trust.

But in later life, because dressage is not a natural way for a horse to move, unless there is a great deal of other kinds of exercises, horses will suffer with arthritis etc from the stress of the movements they perform continually.

Unless the training, as in the video, is cruel. then I don't think the sport itself is cruel. The horse needs a certain physique and temperament to shine in this discipline and a good partnership with a skilled rider. But it is performing many unnatural movements that can speed up the aging process.

100% it’s a fucking disgrace to exploit animals in any way. They have no choice in this.

No.
People and horses have had an affinity with each other for thousands of years.
Dressage examines the communication, love and respect between horse and rider.
I know many dressage competitors and I know none that are cruel. Horses, like dogs, respond best to gentle voice and kindness.

Success at an Olympic level means rider and horse have a huge commitment to listen to each other.

Horses aren't really equipped to make choices - they are prey animals, and are much more invested in reacting than thinking ahead.

Humans and horses have very different minds. However, when they work closely together, it's kind of like dance partners. Dressage is about partnership.

Well, that must be the most ridiculous comment on this thread (and there have been lots). What do you think the horse would do with the medal? Put it in a display case, show it to all their horse friends? You might as well give a medal to the boat rather than the rower.