Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

You said it yourself - he can't stand there negotiating with her all morning. I say good for him. I hate this business of 'negotiating' with children. You go into school - end of

I think it depends on what happened after you left. If your Dd reluctantly agreed to go in and didn’t have an issue with the loft, or found it funny etc then I think the teacher has done an amazing job.

if he picked her up against her will l, it’s definitely wrong

Hes in an IR unit in mainstream but they frequently borrow staff from round the school and the unit children do go to their year group class
All staff at his school have received SEN training and have implemented methods with other children who could benefit

Of course that's often down to weather or not the individual school organise training

To update, I asked DD what happened after I left, about how she went into school, to give her the opportunity to tell me herself, but she didn't volunteer any info about the carrying thing, so I casually said I had thought i had seem him carrying her in.She initially denied this had happened (unsure why) but then agreed it had, but seemed quite embarrassed to talk about it, although said she liked it and it was fun when I checked if he had asked her first, and confirmed that he did.I reminded her that she can always say no if someone does something like that and she doesn't like it, or tell me if something makes her feel uncomfortable but she is too worried to say, and that i was just checking to make sure she didn't mind and that he had asked her permission.I could tell she didn't want to talk about it any further, but will keep an eye on things and definitely mention something if it keeps happening, as even it she said she didn't mind it it still doesn't feel ideal at her age to be happening regularly.

Did you ask her why she wouldn’t go in in the first place?

Maybe do that instead of concentrating on making sure she understands she must give permission to be carried into school going forward?

No child should be carried in to school be it male or female teacher.

Sounds like he’s asked her permission and he consented. So he thought he was doing it in a fun way she was happy about.

that’s not to say it should continue to happen if shes no longer comfortable but it does give a degree of comfort that he didn’t force it on her

Mmmm I really don't think that should be happening. If I saw someone do this I'd definitely be mentioning it to SLT.

Not that simple. Our LA took an extremely dim view of my daughter being forcibly taken in to school. It causes far more angst and anxiety.

Instead we could try looking at why said child is struggling so much to go in to a place which is meant to be safe, fun and nurturing. Only once we did that did we help our child, now she’s in her first year of secondary and enjoys school.

I have sympathy for you and your daughter. However, I do not think it should be up to the teacher to get your daughter into school. Maybe an agreement with school that you walk with her to the classroom? You stay with her until she is in regardless how long it takes. Maybe speak to school about TA being assigned at start of school day? And the teacher starts class as usual regardless if your daughter went in or not as it’s not fair on other students.

Has she become reluctant to go to school since the baby arrived (or possibly became more interesting/alert/mobile)? Because it might just be that she thinks the baby is having a better time at home with your full attention and she's jealous of that, so doesn't want to go in to school because she's missing out.

My sister worked in a school catering for children with special needs. Her training was such that the staff were forbidden to lay hands on the children. Try witnessing a child screaming and flailing on the floor and do nothing apart from negotiation while letting them lie there in distress. Absolute cruelty. I say pick them up and comfort them, as is what my sister practiced as did the rest of the highly professional staff.

I am not sure I would do the same, BUT if my child is be supporting the teacher (and cheering from the sidelines), and be thankful they’re in. You can’t hang around all day and nor can teachers, as the other 31 kids parents wouldn’t be happy their kids education has been halted. She’s in and that’s what you want.

Yes, children do as they are told and are moved when needed and justifiable. Not asked if they are allowed to be moved. They are children. There are certainly issues to unpack. Not ours though.

Not in their class. But I was at school. It was one class only. Not many classes. And if there were issues it would have been common knowledge. It wasn’t.
The attendance roll call was very well established. Sorry. But that is how it was.

I didn't, I went to a lovely school, 2 different lovely schools infact, my experience was almost entirely positive. I was a very well behaved child though.

The roll call was taken early am and then after lunch. Attendance at school when I was there was very much logged and monitored. I realise this is not what you want to hear. But I am afraid it was so.

I don't think he should have carried her. I work in a mainstream primary with a lot of sen children and we are generally told not to pick them up if they refuse to move (and I work with little ones on KS1!). We would certainly not be picking up a child in year 5. The only time I can imagine that ever happening is if there was a risk of harm or severe injury where it was seen as safe to move them.
Usually we have to sit it out and wait for the child to move. However this can be frustrating and mean that it becomes a multi adult job as it might start of with a teacher but they then need to go back to the rest of the class, an office member might take a turn but then they need to manage the phones and do the admin tasks, the head/deputy/sendco might all also take a turn. If there is a class TA then this can be a job we do. Not the most exciting as it could be sitting with a child for a long time with them not moving, and then someone will swap to give a break.
It sounds like you need to have a chat with school about the plan for getting her in - I imagine this will only get worse and you will have a school refuser on your hands, so think now about strategies. Would going in earlier/later help? Some kids prefer later as they can be met by an adult, and maybe do something calming before class. Others prefer early so they are in first and feel safe to be in their seat and not knocked about by others.
It might be having a special toy that they are allowed.

It doesn't mean that's how it was at every school.

Earlier you complained about being left to daydream as you were able and the school let you down. I must have misread that.

I think you have been very measured in the face of probably well intentioned, but completely inappropriate behaviour from a teacher.

I think you need an emergency review of the EHCP because her needs are not being met, as evidenced by how reluctant she is to go into school.

Hopefully you keep a diary of triggers, incidents, what happened etc (if not start one) as you should be thinking about what might suit her when it comes to secondary. I know it probably seems far off. It's not!

Teacher did the job of getting her into school. Perhaps her father needs to attend so he can carry her in, or if she's small, you can.

I really don't get why parents allow there kids to behave like this. None of this nonsense when I was a kid ... we all had to go to school, it wasn't optional, parents were in control.

The school my brother and sister went to ( different to mine) were no different.

Stop babying her. She needs to go to school. Imagine if everyone behaved like that.

My point is that the legal requirements regarding attendance were different then which is true. Some schools would've been more on top of it than others, of course but not all schools.

Not to mention some children with SEND who would've been out of school as the SEND system was going through a big change.