Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

lime, dh once said to get DT1 sleeping (he loves cosleeping, I don't) we needed a football made into my head, some kind of bellows to mock breathing and a tape of me swearing intermittently . Vent away I certainly do

clarella -oh crap, I've forgotten what I was going to say... On phone. I'll have to post and check back. Seriously, I've only just read the thread too. I blame the sleep deprivation. Of course...

A slightly better night here last night, woke about 6 times but resettled with boob, so i got more sleep. He woke at 5, I got him back to sleep til 5:30, then distracted him with in the night garden on my phone til after 6 to avoid getting up (I should add, my DD is the only one to watch tv and watches one or two programmes after tea only, so this is a great improvement or huge slip in standards, depending how you look at it!)

I am now convinced night weaning is the way to go. However I have no idea how to achieve it. If not fed, DT1 screams like a banshee, ear splitting volume, and arches backwards so strongly I can physically barely hold him and so far he's proved he can keep it up for an hour (I cracked and fed him). Then, IF you get him to sleep, he wakes within say 10-15 minutes so you have to repeat the whole thing.

Any words of wisdom?

Right, I'll go and remind myself what i was meant to post.

Oh yes, clarella, I feel your pain, the walk of screaming baby, get them out, get them suitably damp, wrestle them back in... Grim. And of course its genetic, this ability to love beyond reason these little creatures who are actively torturing us with extremes of sleep deprivation, because on paper It's not rational but I'm with you

lime y y y to screaming fights for everything here too- from DT1, Dt2 is ok with most of it most of the time. Wearing.

oh dreaming - two - hats off to you {{}}

I have no idea how you'd do it I'm afraid. bottles of water? I'd be thrown out of my lll group if I said it out loud!

god I've forgotten what to say now!

your description of my walk was very accurate!

we are actually on wake up 4 since 7:15 worst ever!! but, naps were funny today - very light with lots of twitching etc. he learnt to sit and play with sodding vtech thingy and looked soooo chuffed plus made a new mumum/raspberry sound so hoping all that's to blame.

am cosleeping from now. babyless friend has asked me to Eddie izzard next Sat - dh said he'd just cuddle him all eve with bottle standing by. maybe we should just do that every night?! thing is he knows his bedtime routine well it's just the staying asleep bit. if regression exists he's truly channeling the newborn thing!

only other straw to clutch at is brewing chicken pox which is possible .

he's twitching away next to me. hope just processing stuff and not another bloody uti. his amoxycillin lost me 2 lb in weight in a week due to the draining he did of me all night. not a bad weightloss plan mind

Dreaming Screaming and arching (in fury, nothing more) give or take a bit of bum-pounding is exactly what we get here, and he will carry on for two hours or more if he doesn't get it. Pantley Pull Off only gets us so far but, as mentioned earlier, he seems to have got that one sussed too. I would also love to night wean, even if it only it got us to a stage where DH could the share the wake-ups. No idea what to do either.

Clarella Mine's a bottle (and dummy) refuser so the old offering-water-instead-of-a-feed will not work - I have a recollection of something similar with Dreaming's DS...? At this stage, it's the comfort of a nice warm mummy-smelling boob that trumps the milk, I think, although steady snacks throughout the nights are probably a bonus. Greedy piggy. Nursery says he ate two sandwiches plus a hot dinner this afternoon. I'm thinking of changing his name to Bucket. He's skinny as a rail but the average height of an 18 month old so it's obviously all going straight to his legs.

He's asleep again. Let's pray in vain that he'll give me three hours now instead of two...?

ah yes Elph dummy refuser here since he had his tounge done but so used to syringes now he will accept a bottle. how was your night?

ours was pants! even cosleeping he was a over the place!

something's going on he's so unsettled even next to me. he's napping now in the hammock (panicked buy, only £30 mind ) and twitching and squirming. but at least he does not wake in there for some reason . if it continues I might get his urine tested again as unsettled at night was one of the symptoms. he's not fed much today yet too, though I guess feeding all night makes you a bit full

we can settle him without feeds at times but when I'm knackered it's tough. dh going to come in tonight so might help out. I gave into boob far too much last night. I guess at 20 weeks we can still get him off too much boob

My turn.

Fucking, fucking, fucking FUCK.ING. VOMITING AGAIN!!!

FUUUUUUUUCK!

Which highlights ANOTHER reason I want to night wean, ergo when he needs to feed to sleep, he vomits awake in very short order.

Fuck my fucking life. Thank fuck for white noise is all I can say. That is a 69p app I will never regret buying.

The end.

oh shite Elph.

you know what - same here all day too. and just now. he's on a bloody pillow now. I used to do the whole easy routine but since little Mr distractable got into the world in a Big Way he's only interested in feeding when sleepy. but naps have been destroyed by painful sneaky burps.

here's to a jolly night.

ok now I'm suspecting reflux again. ffs. only sleep on a pillow

fucking is. sleeping better than in ages on pillow

Hello all. Had a couple of OK nights but then last night was a bit crap really. Though I think that was in a large part because me and dp went out to London all day and left her with mil. She was impeccably well behaved but we didn't get back till later then we thought so I think it was lots of comfort waking really.

I wear a bra and top at night, also I don't feed lying down (I never realy got the hang of it). I've found this has stopped the desire to be constantly attached to me for the most part but does mean I sometimes get stuck sitting up half the night feeding. Ho hum, swings and roundabouts I guess.

clarella your dd is only 4 months so still super tiny. Also massive growth spurts and stuff at this age so they feed loads anyway. 4 months was definitely dds worst time. I think the rest of us have dc around 12 months or more so very different expectations I think. Have you tried a wedge shaped pillow, by the way? I think one saved my life when dd was a little windy reflux monster. Though she would occasionally slip down the slope and end as wimpering little heap at the bottom :o

clarella my DT2 was my worst-of-the-lot sleeper at 4 months, always in with us, horrendous. In fact, its only as they've grown we've realized its DT1 who's the issue, as he's always woken frequently but slept inbetween- sometimes at least- so was WAY better than DT2. Who now wakes once for milk but has very recently started occasionally sleeping through! Where we are at a loss with his brother. Luckily DD, 18 months older at 2.6 is sleeping through mostly now.

elph, take my hand, there's no better option, let's go and find a cliff and jump, thelma and Louise style. For d&v has hit DT1, again. He's only been free of it 7 days, this is his fifth bout since 16 th Feb (I can be that precise as my mum caught it then, we stayed at hers 4 nights...). So the first one was definitely an infectious d&v bug but now? Seriously? We are thinking food diary/ exclude dairy, go down the food intolerance route. The GP wouldn't send a sample last time, but I'm tempted to insist this time. But its bloody fucking grim. I bet he's sick in our bed again tonight too. Rargh!!!!

Wrote a huge post, only to lose it when MN went down for the second time. Argh!

Will come back to re-write it, but for now thought I'd share the blog I've been reading, as it has some interesting information. I was just reading this post: take the guilt out

I've been completely resistant to sleep training, but I think I'm reaching a stage where I vaguely feel I should be doing something about this situation (lest because I'll have a newborn in a few months )

Most of all, I've observed that when DD has a good night (rare but has happened) she wakes up in such a brilliant mood that it makes me feel she's not resting enough the other nights. So should I stop being a wuss and do something about this?

(started this post yesterday!!) oh dear god that d and v sounds horrendous - so many times too? definitely hold doc to ransom till sample done!

hear I'm good with growth spurts - go with the flow etc but last 2 nights have been a revelation. basically Saturday night he went 4,2.5 and 3.5 hours between feeds. and wake ups though he went on pillow part way through that initial 4 hours. and even then it was me who decided to feed at 6 am am worrying about his kidneys - he was only stirring! plus naps on the pillow have been more complete. bf refusal at about 8:30am despite being eager to feed so we gavisgoned and he was much better. think all things pointing in one direction. previous night he was stirring, writhing, crying and comfort feeding every 45 mins but nearer the morning simply needed moving position - onto my pillow

going to chat to doc about trying meds - were prescribed omezeprole but then the uti was positive so decided not to use it (oops cos I think it's pricey!) and blamed everything sleep wise since on the antibiotics. but starting to think we've missed the fact it could be reflux at night. yes I'm looking at those pillows but when we've raised the mattress he ends up sliding down even with towels etc! sids guidelines have really made us worry too much in past.

I didn't sleep sat night just watching and checking him but did a bit on Sunday - poppy I think you could be right..he (and I) were much brighter as a result of better sleep (hence too busy to mn today!!)

currently been asleep 2 hours on pillow.

poppy, some on here have done various methods of sleep training, unsuc

poppy I think the blog has good points. I teach children with autism, some have moderate learning difficulties and some are actually of mainstream ability but socially very impaired. I spend all.my time effectively social training them. I've learnt how to do it the 'no tears' way in effect and they blossom as a result. it takes time and effort and sometimes they go forward and back but essentially we work on increasing their confidence and independence. repetition, familiarity, cues, rewards and tiny tiny small steps are the key. when it goes wrong we 'back chain' - go back to ways in which they feel comfortable and rebuild back up both establishing confidence, familiarity and routine. being more independent allows them to achieve more - the more we support them the more they need us as they grow.

with that in mind helping a child to be more of an independent sleeper is only going to be a good thing whether that is through cosleeping (modelling?) or in their own room. I like the ncss in its theories and the way it makes parents record and set plans as it puts the onus on the parent to shoulder the responsibility rather than the child being 'at fault' which is how we work at school - we all have to sing from the same song sheet and all have to agree to where we are aiming for for each child. BUT we tailor it to each child's individual needs and treat all our children differently (something I found hard at first coming from mainstream, eg very 'strict' with some kids, less so with others for who 'strictness' is ineffective and pointless. well it depends what you're being strict about! eg sitting still in assembly. most can and should do, a couple dance about as their sensory processing is impaired)

I think what I'm trying to say is to tailor something that will encourage your lo to become more confidently independent in seemless tiny steps (only moving on further when confident and comfortable) can only be helpful. I dont like the word 'training.' the hard bit is working out how best to do it!

does that make sense?

at the mo I'm seeing a pillow as a tiny sideways step in our sleep journey

to clarify a bit - the more we do stuff for them the less independent they are, we often get children joining us from mainstream who've had a support assistant and have no ability to operate in school by them selves. but this in the end impairs their ability to access lots of things as they get older.

oh dear that was a bit of a long pointless post

well more 'normal' 'bad' wake ups with this pillow - fed 7:15-8 to sleep, then 10, 1,3,5. but I actually see that as normal for a breast fed 20 week old and as right next to me not a problem. plus he's actually sleeping! and feeds are more substantial dh thinks too many feeds, he really doesn't get this feeding on demand thing

hope nights are not too horrific elsewhere...

Clarella not pointless at all, thank you for taking the time to post - a lot of it resonates with our experience and I think a very gentle approach tailored to our DD is the only way we would feel comfortable proceeding.

So after a lot of soul searching we have a rough plan that will be very slow and fairly flexible in terms of time frames, but I think it's our best shot:

1. Slow, progressive night weaning. Get the feeling DD would freak out at any cold turkey solutions.
2. DD to move to nursery - she won't care a bit about this, as she's completely off co-sleeping and prefers to sleep alone in her bedside cot these days. DH thinks we're waking her up a lot and I agree.
3. Shush pat for any residual (HA HA HA) night wakings after that.

Might be very wishy-washy, but she's not well rested and I feel we owe her to try.

Anyway, how are the babies with D&V, hope they're feeling better, poor souls. My heart goes out to you, Dreaming and Elph - that truly sucks!

Also, been meaning to ask how are the babies settling in nursery, Elph and Hear? What do they do during the day? Are they happy to stay when you drop them now?
I'm thinking of getting DD in for a couple of mornings.

So what's new then?How are your little devils darlings?

Dreaming how the heck they can be so different from each other?One laid back and the other full steam ahead?
Elphaba have a good splosh of whisky

Clarella I remember I was venting to my friends where the fuck word appeared numerous times in one sentence.Afterwards I was taken on side by my friend with a gentle suggestion to stop swearing as DS will pick it up very quickly.I was so agitated thet the person who made the suggestion didn't dare to come near me.Poor guy.

Lucky you with the nursery-I live in the middle of nowhere so no such luck until DS is 3.

It's Wednesday today so my day out-will skip the baby group as still snotty and don't want to spread my germs around,will go to my fantastic MIL and let her cooo over her little darling (and he'll be on his best behaviour) while being spoilt with great food.

Still have cold-my sinuses are full of gunk,head pounding as if I drank whole bottle of wine and glands the size of walnuts,if it doesn't get better till next week I'll go to GP-had this shit for 10 days now and living on paracetamol and sudafed at the moment.

Off I go,will try to plug DS in (boob) and maybe steal quick 40 winks if I'm lucky ha,ha,ha,wishful thinking

have a good day and night

Hello!

poppy dd loves, loves, loves nursery. She settled in amazingly and never even glances back when we drop her off. We waited until we were confident she was ready and could walk so is pretty independent, which I think has helped a lot. Also the nursery is lovely. They only have around ten babies in the baby room and usually plenty of staff so they can really give them attention when they need to. They usually go for a walk once a day with them all and do some sort of craft or messy play. They also have lots of books and things to play with. Its Montessori so lots of focus on enabling independent learning which suits dd really well as she likes to potter about doing things for herself. I have also found that she's learning loads of skills, she's getting good at using cutlery, her walking and climbing has really improved, and best of all so has her sleep! On the down side its been a constant stream of snot and stomach bugs since starting, but thats life I suppose :o

DS also adores nursery, but we started him part-time from when he was just after 5 months since we knew we were going to be building him up to full time at 8 months old. We also have pretty much no family to give me a break so it was the only way I was getting any consistent catch-up sleep at the time. He also has had more days ill than well since he started - he'll literally be disease-free for three or four days, then he'll start coughing and snotting or vomiting all over again. I'm hoping he'll have an immune system like a Sherman tank by the end of it. DH usually drops him off and he's always delighted to be left. He cries on the rare occasion when I drop him off but I think that's more to do with the interruption in routine than anything else.

I'm actually a lot happier when he's at nursery than when he's with the GPs because he loves the interaction with the other babies, he eats like a horse there (but pretty much nothing for us or the GPs, strange child) and they can get him off for naps in nothing flat. I get stressed when he's too infectious to go to nursery and the GPs have to look after him. They're lovely, but I'd rather he was with the pros!

It's done nothing for his sleep, unfortunately.

Still vomiting here though no diarrhoea today and only sick once- his entire tea up though :( . Stool samples gone for culture plus reducing substances to check for lactose intolerance as its been going on so often/long and his weight gain has slowed a lot. (Has mini elphs too? He's had loads of d&v hasn't he?) I don't know what to make of it really but dairy free for now too. Bah. Nothing makes me miserable like dairy free...

Anyway, lovely to hear of all your happy, nursery loving babies. None of mine have ever been.

I best get to bed, been in holiday cooking/packing frenzy. First time we have attempted any time away since the boys were born- bar a few horrendous nights at my mums where noone slept and I cursed leaving home with three dc under age 2 vehemently . Three under 3'll be miles better....and just in case not, my mum is coming for 3 nights to help .

I stopped bf DD at 15 months as i was 4 months pg with the twins and it hurt a lot. She then spent 6 months permanently ill, but now does seem to be miles better. It will pay off elph immune system of steel in the pipeline.

God, that last paragraph is very random and makes no sense- bf got painful, I stopped, DD was ill near constantly, this winter has been so much better. Clear as mud...

Dreaming I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've had DS weighed, so I don't really know how it has affected his weight. I didn't actually realise until I came on MN that baby weighing clinics, or even taking baby weights, was something people did regularly!