Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

Hello again.

Just caught up with the thread and sorry to see babies still not sleeping.

I've been away, not because DD started sleeping through the night, but because:

1. Had family visiting from Lisbon for her christening + birthday party
2. Been even more tired than usual....
3. Just found out I'm 12 weeks pregnant (which explains the tiredness)!

So I have a 13 month old who doesn't sleep and in November I'll have a newborn too. There you go.

Having said that, there was some progress in the last 2 weeks, she finally dropped her afternoon nap completely and whilst that was a pain for 8 or 9 days, she's now sleeping a better (only wakes up 4 times, as opposed to every 45ms) so I think it has made a difference.

Elph how's your DS feeling now?

PS: I know exactly what you mean about the early waking thread, I had to back away slowly from that one

Phew, thankfully last night was much better so feeling more human today. I think nursery is to thank as she is so tired from running about all day she sleeps a bit better. By which I mean she only wakes 4 times! Blooming miracle.

Gosh Poppy, congratulations! You will be fine. Your pregnancy will be uneventful and boring, you will sneeze out the baby exactly on time and then it will sleep through with no bother from 3 weeks... Really :o

I was so horrified by the idea of having another baby after dd was born I had a mirina coil fitted when dd was 8 weeks. Can't see us even contemplating another for a few years yet.

Glad stitch is feeling a bit better, poor little muffin.

Poppy Congratulations! DS is fine, thanks, for the present five or six minutes at least. He was so fine and non-infectious on Saturday, following gastro and chicken pox, plus the show-stopping ruptured eardrum, that we finally got to go back to swimming. 15 minutes into the lesson, one of the little darlings (not mine, I hasten to point out) shat in the pool, and the lesson was cancelled

Hear 'Nursery wearing DS out' was one of the many dead-certs that was going to make him sleep. Glad it's working (partly) for you. No difference here, sadly.

Well, DH is getting more insistent that we do another attempt at sleep-training DS i.e. a tough one involving crying, probably gradual withdrawal as I refuse to do controlled crying again. I'm so torn. There are days when I'm genuinely worried about my physical well-being - which is DH's big concern - then other days, like today, I feel a bit better because DS 'only' had four wake-ups last night (snap, Hear!). Most recently I tried 5 nights of Pantley Pull-Off to try and night wean. DS worked out that if he bit down (four teeth...yep...) plus seized my boob with both hands I wasn't going to try that trick again in a hurry. He was on the boob less, but we both got less sleep, and I ended up with bitten, bruised, engorged boobs for two days.

Has no one invented a magic wand yet? No one?

Elphaba if your DH wants to get tough he could buy you ear plugs, take babyelph in another room and offer only water. We did this when dd1 was 20 months old as I just couldn't do it anymore. She had bedtime feed, then dreamfeed at 11.30pm, then water only between midnight and 6am. It took a week, but she started sleeping through. Haven't been brave enough to try it yet with Stitch.

He has suggested putting me up in a hotel for a few nights while he sorts it...

oh ouch elpha!

the dh discussions re cio etc are what I find the hardest. oh and the possibly going to crash the car thing.

stitch I agree re evolutionary thing. tbh I'd be more relaxed about going with it but dh isn't. he's convinced lo should be able to go 4 hours without a feed. but at 19 wks (21 adjusted) he's acting like a newborn. actually if a cuddle is all he wants he'll accept that but it seems to be boob mostly at mo.

we're hourly tonight. he's in with me. even though I have a bedside cot . and snuffly. I'm sure that mattress is simply harder and less comfy mind. fucking sids guidelines

where do people stand on sheepskins?

I have been doing pantly pull it out when I'm not in a coma

Budge up on the sore boobs bench, Dreaming. I've got mastitis again. See? Whenever I do even the gentlest of sleep training, it comes back to bite me on the arse (or, in this case, boob).

Clarella I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times DS has done a four hour stretch (IIRC 20 weeks was one of his absolute worst periods), and I'm completely with you on the evolutionary thing. There is nothing 'wrong' with our babies' sleeping patterns. They want to sleep as close as possible to their mothers with free access to boobs. We haven't moved on biologically from caveman times in that regard. Our lifestyles, unfortunately, have and that's why the sleep is a problem. And it's a problem for us, not our babies.

Most/all of us here are co-sleepers to a greater or lesser extent - Hear most of all I would suggest? She's so desperate for kip hard-core she even sold their cot. I really only started co-sleeping a lot when DS was over 6 months old as I was equally paranoid about SIDS, but then one of the HVs on my local team told me that, for a BFing mum, the SIDS risks virtually disappear because of our built-in anti-roll-on-baby device, which I've also read in other reliable sources. There's lots of advice online about safe co-sleeping if you want to reassure your DH.

Oh, and I can't see sheepskins being any more of an issue than the fleece blanket I've been lying DS on since he was tiny to stop the chill of the cot sheets waking him up. Lifesaver, in fact!

I forget that I was on this thread and million others
I will do some swearing today,is that okay?

fuck,fuck,fuck,fuck,and fuck some fucking more fucking more
and repeat
fuck fuck fuck...

DS up goodness knows how many fucking times a night,ready to play at 4 am and wailing in his cot,took him to the boob for a fucking gazillionth time,then to cot,back to me,cot,fucking up and down like a fucking yo-yo.

Did you get so far?Good because what happened later was fucking not awesome.

Took him downstairs,made a cuppa and plonked him into his chair with his stacking rings where he sat with very grumpy face avoiding looking at me ,threw all the rings on the floor and continued to stare into space.Made him bottle,yes,he wants it,no he doesn't,yes,no,yes,no,fuck just take it.

Are you still there?

Plonked him into travel cot and ignored.DH got up to work and got a big grin from his "poor wee boy'.Left the little monster darling in the travel cot and got some hoovering done(couldn't hear the wailing,fanfuckingtastic).

So half a night spent trying to soothe DS in his cot,bent towards him.I've got cold and blocked sinuses so pain in the head everytime I bend down.Trying to rub his tummy sniffling every now and then which obviously keep him awake but it's either this or snots running down my face.And thanks to you DS I'm down with fucking cold because I spend half of every fucking night with my tits out trying to get you back to sleep

Rant over.

Off to town today-considering getting pregnancy test,as I'm nearly a week late.I dreamt about a sibling for DS but if I'm pg I'll have a nervous breakdown as I'm not able to cope with one,what about more...

Off to bed as little monkey went to sleep at 8.Will write something more personal in the evening.Sorry it's all me,me,me

Oh dear, sounds like one of those nights.

Dd woke 3 times between 7 and 10 last night but then slept pretty well only waking at 2 and 5. So that was nice.

Gosh, do I get some sort of uber-cosleeper badge... Or a special hat :o

To be honest once we decided just to go with the cosleeping I found it all a lot less stressful. At about 6 months it became very clear that dd was not going to start sleeping and so was not going to be moving into her own room, so we might as well make the most of it. I'm lucky though I guess as dp is very much on board with it. In fact I think it was him that suggested we just go with cosleeping. He is also very against any sort of sleep training that involves leaving her to cry at all. In fact the more I think about it the more I realise we are a bit woo really. I'm surprised people don't mistake us for ghosts.

oh how badgewankering lime

I'd be up for cosleeping long term now but dp is nervous as my sister slept with her daughter for years. he has too many friends with ideal babies and a completely unrealistic idea of babies sleep.

luckily today we met his oldest friend who sadly lives In Ethiopia - sadly as I was delighted sorry to hear their 7 month old has terrible sleep possibly worse than our little G and I wish that dh and he could go out to the pub to bemoan their babies' sleep. he's coming back for a tooth extraction next month. I shall uncharacteristically be encouraging a pub visit

having said all of that he's now much more open to the idea we need to be flexible thinking longer term and you just do what gets everyone the most sleep!

so sheepskin under sheet to see if makes a difference not bloody likely but makes me feel better!

I'm camped out in bed tonight with him in bedside cot as we found a couple of weeks ago a hand hold helps him slip into a second sleep cycle which he's since stopped doing after a disruptive wknd (was awake pretty much hourly last night) so far it MAY have worked as now been 1.5 hours and I got to watch broadchurch

bet you're all thinking aw so hopeful and so naive...

hear my sister regularly posts images of babies brain scans who've not been nurtured enough (read cio lol) on fb as she's v into attachment parenting and I teach sen children, some whom are sen due to very poor start in life/abuse and so my guilt levels are obsessively and exceedingly high and probably meant I picked him up way too much when he squeaked as a squidgy

my I'm upbeat tonight! it's the sheepskin! it's a talisman!

So, that Night Of Possible Bliss that wasn't on account of the sore boobs? Yep, you got it, total fluke. Normal service resumed here, except DT2 ill so I did 7 night feeds last night between them, then went to work. I am a walking zombie.

I was up to night 4 of the no boob before midnight policy. I broke though on his 8th screaming banshee wake up before 11: and the second time he'd woken DT2, fed them both. DD refused to go to bed til 9:30 too. Well, she was in bed, but hollering every few minutes so i was wearing out the stairs between her and the boys

We'd be amazing on sleep, I'm sure.

elph, I have a horrible wondering if night weaning would help us, hence my attempt at no boob before midnight. Something tells me my 12 month old May not need the 4-5 night feeds he has . An mn twin mum friend had a nightmare sleeper, who she stopped bf at 12 months, has started sleeping through aged 14 months (in the last two weeks). She's my inspiration. It's not perfect, she struggled to settle her dts to sleep, co sleeps with the other for parts of the night, and relies heavily on her elder dds, 9 & 11 I think, to help with the dts at bedtime but what an improvement!! (We even made ourselves a support fb group for those desperate in the night times with 10 other sleep deprived mn twin mums, so i feel I 'know' her a little!) . So, my mission is night weaning. I shall of course report any improvements, but so far, I'm just more broken than usual. Day 5 today. I have tried this once before and gave up totally on day 6

poppy, congratulations!! Sounds similar to me-you'll have 18 or 19 months between dc? Except I grew two second time round for added fun :) It's lovely though, really lovely watching my three play together. They all love each other, DD always wants the boys to come if i try to do something just the two of us for 1:1 time (!?). And maybe the baby'll sleep!

Got to go, fed ill DT2, DT1 just waking. Again. FFS.

Oh, and clarella the problem with sheepskins is meant to be overheating. Used to be the norm in nz, but they had 3 x higher cot death rate per 1000 than us. I'd still try it

^ that sounds know it all and critical clarella, I assure you, its not meant to be. I know sweet FA , clearly, as my 12 month old is probably as bad as your Lo, and it was purely information .

It's a bit warmer in NZ, though, isn't it? As long as you're careful with what you put over the top of them it's probably OK.

Dreaming I'm also reasonably sure 11 month old DS does not need upwards of six night feeds (this is me posting while doing number five, possibly six), hence my frequent half arsed attempts at night weaning. However, I'm so worried that I'd go through the whole sleepless process, only for the wake ups to stay the same and no longer have my sure-fire KO device. And I'd probably get mastitis again.

Taking me and my hot boob back to my own bed again, now. Hope you've all had more than a two hour stretch of sleep tonight

m.today.com/moms/exhausted-new-moms-hilarious-take-expert-sleep-advice-goes-viral-6C9559908

lol

no don't worry re sheepskin advice we've thought long and hard about it. thing is, our bed has a soft layer on top and he does sleep and self settle a bit better there. the sheepskin is under a sheet. I do think it made a bit of a difference last night - he slept a solid 2 hours at the first part and I think there were stretches of 2 hours again, he had a stuffy nose and seemed to need to be upright after feeds so I hadto transfer after a little while propped up (I think he gets a bit refluxy sometimes) BUT I got yelled at a couple of times for picking him up when starting to grizzle (which is different) and he went back to sleep when I put him down (on my bed). thing is we found when younger if we picked him up when grizzling he'd usually go back to sleep on shoulder without a feed/and or it was just a burp and so would sleep after the burp (god the burping all night was horrendous) ( actually I think we've had reflux a lot which has caused a lot of our issues)

also after waking and grumbling squeezing farts out - left him for a bit till he got upset - I then put him back and he actually dosed off in the cot again till more sodding farts which was fab in my mind.

I feel it's tiny steps towards getting him more secure and used to coping on his own. the stuffy nose is an issue so off to get olbas oil!

That link is so achingly apt Clarella that I'm tempted to post it to my Facebook, however I've probably lost most of the FB friends I ever had because most of my status updates seem to revolve around DS's hideous sleep and my associated slide into insanity. I do have a few friends on there with equally sleepless babies, however, so it would probably score a couple of likes!

attempted to post again this morn but mn wouldn't connect... oh dear Elph :(. Im with you on the KO. device! hope you got a bit more sleep?

phoned hospital about this uti / kidney stuff and it seems he did have an infection (I'd begun to think the sample was contaminated as I wasn't aware of a fever) due to the culture and bacteria count. that was about 5-6 weeks ago which is when sleep really got bad (it's never been great) so we were dealing with that plus the amoxycillin plus then his system getting used to the low level antibiotic. I think it's finally getting there as he's finally missing the odd day poo wise and it's nice and paste like and bright yellow

we have a scan in a couple of weeks to check for kidney reflux etc.

I know Elph! I try unsuccessfully not to post about child related stuff esp sleep but there literally is nothing left in my life!!!

it's very witty and too too true and I wish it was mandatory reading alongside that contraceptive bumpf they make you read when you leave hospital

ironically it was posted by my lll Facebook group half of the posts there are sleep related rather than breastfeeding

sheepskin definitely a winner during morning nap btw. it's just bloody comfy. and my our bed is actually a lot hotter so I'd rather he was there all of 6 inches further east

my dh is convinced our baby has a very accurate internal gps system which senses exactly where he's being put when asleep

Poppy congratulations :)
Clarella how did you manage to write such a loooong post with your lo attached to your boob?
Elphaba ancient art of breastfeeding .Did you rip your blouse open with buttons flying sideways with loud ta-daaaaaaa?
Roar I tried cosleeping-every morning DS would be out of his cot and in our bed attached to my boobs-worked for him but not for me.I used to wake up in a strange position with numb hand due to my hand being squished and sore back.DS was very happy in our king size bed spread like an eagle on half of it while DH and me were on the other half.

My deepest sympathy to those with dreaded D&V,hope your little ones recover quickly.

Thanks for gin and cava,would loooove sometimes a drink but no.Had a look at my earlier post and feel so ashamed of myself

DS has slept better last night,woke up just 3 times but didn't settle tonight until 9 pm.He turned into little monster and it wears me out.He took a sudden dislike to a bath,everything is a wrestling fight-nappy change,getting dressed,toothbrushing.Grumpy in the buggy,not happy on the floor,not happy when picked up,not happy in walker...

I'm off to bed soon,will try to make the most of it.

Take care,hope all the wee monkeys are sound asleep :)

do not feel ashamed lime! venting is good

rubbish night last night possibly due to attempt to walk 4 miles to baby class in pouring rain in the new out n about nipper - total screaming meltdown as he couldn't see me. tried carrying for a bit but he wasn't dressed for rain! so must have swallowed loads of air which then caused tummy issues all bloody night. we co slept and actually this time it made a difference. and also didn't want a feed after 2:30 when he woke. just needed reassurance. every bloody hour

he's suddenly doing the moro reflex lots again. I wish we'd swaddled. though when I've tucked a light sheet over an arm he's been furious not to get it out!

ah well he's sparko now as had early nap. am sure will wake in 40 mins.

I love him so much through and really enjoyed cosleeping last night

hope night's are good peeps!

baby class was abandoned and we sought refuge in Starbucks. which he enjoyed