Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place if you want reassurance that it gets better bonbonpixie...

Can I just say that if this cough was a person I would take great, great pleasure in shooting it, starting with the least-lethal places first to ensure an agonising death?

That article makes me angry in many ways. I like the ISIS site too, as much as anything because it sort of says, IRIC, that sleep research is all rather sketchy as you can't exactly do proper double blind repeatable tests with babies and sleep deprived parents. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that really there is no universal right and wrong, no matter what some Daily Fail expert thinks. You just muddle through finding things that help you survive until the magical day when they sleep more than 1/2/4 hours in a row (delete according to current state of your DC's sleep 'regression'.)

Being the desperate sheep I am, I too now own chamomile tea but hadn't decided when to give it to DS last night, so discouraged (though not surprised) to learn it had no effect on BabyElphaba. Maybe you need to try for a bit, build the sleep associations? Anyway, next time we have a new tooth I may try it. Got his latest one on Wed, randomly not the one next to the centre top tooth he already had, but the second one along. So he now has a tooth, a gap, and a tooth. He will look like a little school boy losing his teeth already. Or a thug. A cute, chubby, sleepless thug .

Oh, and milestones make no difference for us either. I still live in hope, though. He's trying to walk atm. Maybe this will be the one that ends all the sleep shenanigans [optimist emoticon].

Oh yes, me too Blossom. Walking will solve all ills . How old is yours?

Really struggling now DS has dropped his daytime nap. The day is so bloody long and everyday I have to risk leaving 2.75 yo DS on his own near pens, walls and other trouble while I resettle DD to make sure she naps for more than 10 minutes. He watches far too much TV...

DS wouldn't touch the chamomile tea tonight. I swear that kid knows what's going on. DH and I took advantage of him being at nursery today to formulate A Plan for his sleep which we steeled ourselves to start with tonight. An hour later, nursery rings up asking us to come and get DS because he's running a raging temp, ergo we now feel awful and have lost the momentum to do anything. I should have checked more carefully for a hot water bottle concealed about his person when we got him as I'm sure he knows we were plotting against him (or, more specifically, his sleep).

I've gone to collect him a few other times and they've been trying to get him off for a nap (them: rocking pram; him: roaring furiously). I keep meaning to ask them if he flips them the bird behind my back when I foil their dastardly schemes to get him asleep.

Ho hum. Off for another nice, long, endlessly interrupted night...

Last night was a bit of a mix of extremes. Started well, then woke and wouldn't settle for over 2 hours about 10, then slept 4 hours straight and only woke once till 6;30. Also she didn't feed at all between 12 to 6;30 which is something of a record.

I don't know what to expect tonight.'she is full of camomile tea again and ate loads for dinner so we will see.

We've got screaming tonight but she's well, eaten loads, slept ok ish today so its Mean Mummy time - DH is out and I've got to deal with DS. Checking every 5 minutes. Fucking miserable.

I was starting to hope I would soon be leaving this thread (no offence, ladies!) as the truly horrific nights over Christmas (while staying away, DH ill, DS unsettled and DD waking hourly, sometimes just to scream at me) I finally worked out were down to DD having an ear infection and now we're back home and DH is better I hoped it would get better. I even had a night of only two waking, only to be followed immediately by more hourly wakings, bouts of crying and generally 'I want to be awake' time (her - I want to be asleep, obviously!).

Is anyone else struggling to tell the difference between 'I'm so tired, how dare you try to make me go to sleep' crying, 'I'm hungry' crying and 'I'm a bit poorly' crying?

Yeah - I've always felt a bit inadequate when I've been reassured by books/others that you'll quickly learn the different meanings of your baby's cries. I can confess to only a patchy, ball-park guess most of the time.

There may have been times when if you had been in the vicinity of ,my bedroom at 3am you may have heard me shout 'please! Just learn to talk and tell me what you want child!'. I tend to just do random stuff and hope one of them works. [Hmm]

My db just came round with his dd (who is 5). Dd had a fabulous time playing with her but has gone to bed an hour later than usual, which could result in disaster.

DS was so crazy overtired by the time he went to bed (an hour earlier than usual must be this temperature-causing disease because I managed to time his naps OK today) he wouldn't even feed to sleep. Got him to fall asleep in his cot using a strategy from the No Cry Sleep Solution and he's stayed asleep for almost 90 mins Maybe tonight's going to be one of those random, rare nights of few wake-ups he taunts me with every now and then...

Elphaba hope you got some sleep, Hear hope the night wasn't too disastrous.

So after a couple of hopeful nights in the night-weaning experiment, things haven't been going so well in the ouzo household. DD has definitely been sleeping for longer periods of time (hooray!) but the downside is that we're getting two hour spells in the middle of the night when nothing will get her back to sleep. DH goes in and sshs, but she keeps waking up again. After an hour of this last night, we agreed maybe she was hungry so I fed her. But it didn't send her back to sleep . In the end she was sitting on my lap and giggling so i put her back in the cot, where she did eventually go back to sleep. By this time we'd all been awake for 2 hours. I think I actually feel worse right now than I do after getting up 4 times in the night.

Plus her naps have been dreadful the last couple of days, perhaps no coincidence. We are really struggling to get her down for her first morning nap. She just fights and fights it even when we can see she's tired. This then means her post-lunch nap is put back loads and she just isn't sleeping as long. I'm so bored of it all to be honest. Although I'm worried about going back to work in 2 weeks I will not miss the 4 days a week when I don't have to get this baby to nap.

Not sure what we're going to do now about night time sleep. Feeling really stuck again. DD finally learned to crawl properly yesterday so maybe she'll exhaust herself today .

Oh dear half, what a pickle! Maybe its just that the sleeping long stretches is such a novelty it's going to take a bit for her to adjust. [Optimistic face]

Last night was pretty average in the end but this morning she is an overtired mess. Dp is giving her a morning bath to try and calm her down a bit in the hope she will then have her nap.

Well maybe DS wasn't overtired last night and is entering a new and improved method of sleep-resistance. He's bouncing off the walls again tonight despite the foolproof bedtime routine which usually knocks him out. I've just put him in his cot and he's beating seven bells out of his toy dog. Bet it won't be nearly as funny at 1am...

Just seen this antidote to the Daily Fail rubbish. Love it when I find something which agrees that I am not a bad parent because my DS still wakes up in the night.

Good blog post blossombath. I've forwarded it to a friend whose almost-11 month old wakes constantly as well. I have been actively checking myself when I find myself saying anything like 'DS's sleep problem'. It's only a problem for me - he is perfectly normal. He is going along with several billion years of evolution that says babies need to sleep next to their mothers and nurse as and when.

Sadly, cavewomen didn't have to work 37.5 hour working weeks. Starting to feel sick at a) having to go back in four weeks and b) having to go back on so little sleep, so we're looking down the barrel at yet more sleep training I really don't want to but I just don't know how I'll cope without some longer stretches of sleep.

Please may I join?

DD is turning 10 months in a week; she was sleeping 12 hours a night from a few weeks old (and dreamfeeding) and I thought I had won the lottery. In fact, I remember thinking to myself it was... wait for it.... BORING! (we co-sleep and I never got so much sleep as in those 3 months)

Clearly deserved what was coming, she was hit by 4 month sleep regression and just got progressively worse. On a "good night" she'll wake up 4 times, on a bad one it can run up to every hour or every 45ms. It's a delight.

She wakes up, whines a bit, I give her the dummy back or let her feed a bit (she's clearly not hungry, it's just a quick comfort thing) and then we do it all again.

I'm so resigned, I don't believe these developmental leeps/regressions will get better before she's 18 months, so I'm just in survival mode at this stage.

I also know I'll never do any form of CC and the "No Cry Sleep Solution" doesn't work with DD because she's happy sleeping next to me, on her bedside cot or anywhere else (even without me). She just seems to wake up loads in the middle of the night, that's all. sigh

Welcome to the crew! Our mantra is 'you just gotta ride that mo fo out' so it sounds like your general resignation and pessimistic attitude will fit right it :o

Dd was amazingly awful Sunday night but only woke 4 times last night (whoop!). We shall see what tonight will bring.

Love the blog article blossom, it rather reflects my views on it all really. Though I also agree with ephaba that the problem is that our lifestyles just don't always make it possible to deal with these natural sleep habits and remain sane. I think that parents (OK, let's face it, mostly women) are expected to do so much more on their own then they ever were before. Its no wonder we end up feeling we cant cope and often feel there must be something wrong when really our DC are acting in a perfectly normal way.

Hi there, PoppyAmex

I'm re-trying the No Cry Sleep Solution at the moment and I appear (for this week at least) to have broken his habit of waking up 40 minutes after going into his cot. It's more like 90 minutes now but, still, small victories. He's got a stinking cold at the moment which he's kindly passed onto me so I'm still resorting to co-sleeping from the second or third wake-up onwards, mainly because I feel like 50 shades of shit and haven't the stamina or health to keep it up all night. I've also been able to settle him with a pat-shh or a cuddle (while co-sleeping) rather than a feed every time. Not that that's really an achievement since he's mainly still waking up as much but three feeds last night down from six or more is some kind of progress, isn't it??

Can I join please? DS is 8mo on Sunday; like so many of you hit the 4m regression and teething and has never managed to sleep through since. He's good at going down after a feed at 6.30-7pmish. On a good night we'll get two wake-ups, where he would have a feed and be pretty much straight down afterwards. On a bad night he'll wake every couple of hours, or not want to go back to sleep after waking up. He's breastfed and has always been fed when he wakes in the night. If I know he doesn't NEED food or that he's woken due to teething, a loud noise etc I can generally cuddle him back to sleep, but after midnight he generally wants a feed to settle. I go back to work next month and am worried how I'm going to feel!

Hi ballroom, welcome to the misery rooms

Another cheery blog by the same chap who told us what we already knew: self settling is a big fat lie. Now he says we are good parents because our babies wake up - hooray!

Any reduction in feed and/or extension of sleep is to be celebrated elphaba, here have a victory and .

Have stopped worrying about work - I may be exhausted but nothing new there and at least I won't spend all day wrestling DS to sleep or following him round the living room as he destroys/evades all attempts to keep him from dangerous things. Still struggling with feelings of anger/frustration and, honestly, hopelessness about ever getting to relax/sleep again. So a few hours out of this environment will be good, I think.

How is everyone else doing?

Yay! I am clearly a super sensitive mother, dd just doesn't know how lucky she is :o

On a happy note dd has now slept 40mins for her morning nap all on her own in our bed 2 days in a row! This might not sound like much but she has napped on laps since forever and 40 mins is her standard morning nap even when we are holding her, so I no longer have to feel guilty or deal with over tiredness if I put her down. Yesterday I hoovered the living-room (oh the glamour :o ). Now I just need to get brave enough to put her down for her longer afternoon nap.

bloosom, I actually found that I was looking forward to being back at work after time off at xmas/new year for exactly those reasons. Even when it's really stressful at least it's a change. Also I generally get a lunch break and can talk to real grown-up people about proper grown-up things. I think I am much more able to deal with dd's terrible sleep when I have a few days a week at work to think about other things.

Thanks for the welcome

I can offer a suggestion for naps (we have those sorted, thankfully).

DD only ever slept 45m naps, down to the minute and someone on MN suggested I try the "Wake to Sleep" method and although I was sceptical I gave it a go because she was clearly tired during the day.

It was a miracle cure, but I think it only works if you have a consistent baby who wakes up always at the same time, so I was lucky there.

I have no brain power to explain the details but here's a link with details.

I started with the morning nap and after 4 days moved on to the afternoon one and save a few exceptions, she now sleeps 1h:30m to 2h. Unfortunately her night wakings have no discernable pattern, so no help there.

Yeah - your link didn't work (for me, anyway) but you jiggle 'em up just before they're due to wake up then they wake slightly and fall into a deeper sleep? Tried it every day for a week and it worked once for DS, so I can only assume it was a fluke. Glad something worked for you though Good job HearMyRoar as well! It's amazing how nice it is getting jobs done without a baby attached to you or fussing in a highchair.

Well, I had primed DH for starting gradual withdrawal on Friday night but I've decided I'm going to stick with part time co-sleeping and nudging on with the NCSS stuff. I have no faith that GW will stick any more this time than it did last time and I just can't face the screaming again.

To that end, I have implemented a 'Toughen-the-Fuck-Up Elphaba' programme for myself to prepare for working full time on no sleep. DS is now on three full days of nursery a week (building up to the five he'll be doing) and I am not napping on those days. I'm exercising like a fiend, batch cooking like the WI's finest and generally keeping busy so my body gets used to the idea of work and not naps. Tomorrow I am off to see the Les Mis movie and on Monday I'm cashing in on the gym, lunch and spa day voucher Father Christmas brought me

Yes, that's the one. I think you need a fair degree of luck as the "jiggling" has to be done 10ms before they're due to wake up.

I'm seriously in awe of you going back to work so sleep deprived - your "toughen the fuck up" program sounds hardcore (especially the no napping part) but sensible and it's a good thing you have some treats to look forward to.