Why so much hate on MN?

[Oncetwicethreetimesmore]

@MNHQ
Why so much hate on MN?
Posters hiding behind complaints about the government, presenting themselves as reasonable actors, to push hate about asylum seekers, people with disabilities, benefit claimants..Mostly the same names all day everyday.
I am told to report - MN just not interested.
I am told to hide the thread..
Why isn't moderation better?
I know this will always exist and exists on other platforms but MN makes no effort to even try to anything about it.
You can't really sell MN as a caring, supportive site with all this stuff offered on a daily basis in active.

You brought up a specific group of people on this thread.

I think if you said ‘apparent x’ about any other ethnicity you’d probably be deleted. Idk why you think it’s ok for just one group. It’s your language that is problematic.

We either have free speech or we don't.

That's the bottom line.

And what can be deemed 'hate speech' is often just an opinion that clashes with far left ideology (such as women not having penises or men not being allowed to partake in womens sports - both those things aren touted as hateful by many)

So we need to allow all opinions how ever uncomfortable they may make us (as long as they are not inciting violence or encouraging physical harm to people)

Words are not violence. Opinions are not violence.

And we seem to be losing the ability to accept that our own views can (and should) be challenged in order to mentally grow and learn. An echochamber is not a place in which you can grow.

Charlie Kirk was murdered for encouraging debate and standing by his opinions.

Censorship is a very dangerous tool.

And I am disabled, bisexual and Christian btw! And I do not think that people's opinions about any of those things should be silenced, negative or not.

I don't think anyone claims "everyone I disagree with" is a bot. I don't agree with you on many things, but I don't think you are a bot.

However there are bots and trolls on MN as there are on any social media. MNHQ has never denied that. What MNHQ has said is they don't think there is bot activity on a large scale.

So since all the Jewish people you talk to (and apparently you know whether everyone you talk to is Jewish, and what their views on Gaza are) any Jewish people with different opinions must not really be Jewish?

I’ve tentatively dipped my toes back into Mumsnet and been shocked by how vitriolic and sneering so many posts are. I’m glad other people have noticed it too. I don’t know if it’s indicative of the low standard of politucal
discourse generally, or if it’s a few bots seeking to sew division and then genuine posters picking up on and inadvertently replicating the same tone, but it’s a shame because it completely stifles any genuine good faith discussion or debate.

Absolutely not.

Some posters use AI in ways that are quite creepy.

One of the prolific posters gets extra kicks by winding people up and then reporting their posts. They boast about it.

You seem to be proving her point.

Also, how original you are. Yet another of the almost daily "MN users are hateful" thread.

I completely agree with you, OP. And what's really been getting up my nose recently is the inconsistency (and possible subjectivity?) of moderation.

Certain sentiments that a lot of people wouldn't consider too terrible routinely get deleted, meanwhile a post last weekend saying (seriously, not in sarcasm) bring back the workhouses and maybe we have to get used to seeing children starving in the streets is allowed to stand because it 'isn't breaking Talk guidelines'. (Personally I think Talk guidelines have been in dire need of an overhaul for a long time now.) Older/disabled people are being subjected to outright bile, ableism and ageism are running rife and much of it is allowed to stand. And that's before I even get started on the trans stuff. And leaving the site on principle is routinely jeered at as 'flouncing'. Says a lot. I honestly believe that certain people (humans, not bots, depressingly) are on MN solely to spout hate, whatever their warped reasons for doing this may be.

Feeling very disillusioned with Mumsnet in general at present, in other words, and probably won't be on the site much longer, one way or another. Obviously MN and its admin team aren't going to care about a solitary poster and I don't expect them to, but I predict many departures if things continue as they are. I guess it's up to MNHQ whether they're happy for the toxicity to spread and MN to become not much more than a couple of steps above a hate site. Personally it saddens me.

This may get deleted, but if it does I really don't care at this point. I'd certainly consider my point proven if it was, though.

You are not a solitary poster, and I wholeheartedly agree with you about the inconsistency and quality of the moderation.

@dreamiesformolly that is a good post and I agree with you.

Perhaps the way forward for those of us who object to the racism, ageism, ableism and other hate on MN is simply not to not engage with those threads. Let them become echo chambers of hate or end up like one thread did with the OP mainly alone on it, reduced to pasting link after link and even resorting to tagging individuals who had left the thread in an attempt to reel them back in.

But it is also hard to resist the urge to counter the hateful stuff that is posted. So...

Absolutely Mrs B.

Yes on that issue it was similar to accusations below. Thankfully women could speak up on a female dominated site.

I agree with this. It now has the feel of Twitter just before it became X - which is sad, I think, because at one point when my kids were small (a long time ago!) I did find both Twitter and Mumsnet a fun, interesting way to get out of an echo chamber and hear differing opinions - but hearing differing opinions shouldn't have to mean normalising prejudice and misinformation.

The word 'hate' should be a word used only to denote exactly that, but its usage has been so watered down lately that it's starting to become a bit meaningless. It seems that every second poster has started to throw it around as a term to mean 'an opinion I don't agree with'.

There are some posters who are unpleasant on all sides of every argument on here, but MN have to tread the line between freedom of speech and removing comments that cross a line. Where there is actual racism, ageism, ableism, etc, then of course MN should be removing those comments. Some posters don't seem to understand where that line is or should be drawn, however, and start shouting 'hate' and reporting comments that fall well short of it.

Saying people can't change sex and there are some circumstances where that matters isn't, in itself, hate.

Discussing the impact of immigration on provision of services and allocation of resources isn't, in itself, hate.

These are both factual issues that can be discussed factually. Some of it depends on how views are expressed, of course. But as grown adults, we need to be resilient enough to be able to see a view we don't agree with and be able to tolerate that. If you can't, then best to stay off the internet in general until you've been able to develop the necessary coping skills to hear opinions that differ to yours.

It now has the feel of Twitter just before it became X

Yes.

Discussing the impact of immigration on provision of services and allocation of resources isn't, in itself, hate

I have never seen anyone on MN suggest it is.

Agree, well said.

I completely agree with you that as grown adults, we need to be resilient enough to be able to see a view we don't agree with and be able to tolerate that.

I also agree with you that saying people can't change sex and there are some circumstances where that matters isn't, in itself, hate. But mocking people's appearances simply because they are trans, or baselessly accusing them of being sex offenders simply because they are trans is hate.

Discussing the impact of immigration on provision of services and allocation of resources isn't, in itself, hate. But using dehumanising language talking about floods and parasites and invasions is hate. Spreading false narratives that demonise whole groups of people as criminals and rapists is hate.

In my opinion, anyone who genuinely cares about true freedom of speech or the quality of political discourse in our democracy should be mindful of not engaging in, encouraging, or normalising that kind of language.

I have. Lots of times. There's a certain tranche of posters who imply that. It's not the majority, but it's always there.

Not just mumsnet/social media but lin shops/ ording food. Wrong delivery. Etc etc. People used to care they used to want to put things right. But not anymore weather its real life orsocial media. Mumsnet and other social media have so many users they just don't care if anyone stays or not.

Part of me does wish more people pulled nastiness up on threads. I know thats not realistic but it would be nice to see . Especially if op is having a hard time.

Thanks for raising this, @Oncetwicethreetimesmore

We do understand why some discussions on Talk can feel confronting. Mumsnet is a broad public forum, so there will be strong disagreement on political and social issues and we won’t remove a view simply because other people strongly dislike it.

We do remove posts that are racist, or otherwise hate speech, as well as
personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory behaviour and posts that are simply seriously unpleasant. We know that moderation can sometimes feel inconsistent from the outside, particularly when people have seen only part of the context but please do keep reporting specific posts that you think cross the line as that is much more helpful than reporting a whole thread or a general type of opinion.

Just a reminder to everyone here - please don’t publicly accuse other posters of being trolls, bots or part of a coordinated group. If you have concerns about a user, report to us and leave us to investigate.

This thread is in danger of becoming an example of the problem it is discussing, so please keep the focus on the posts and arguments and not on each other.

thank you !