Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

Yes to all of this.

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

It's been a potential wake up call for Piston Heads {Men's Forum} as well.

^^
Well that's a new level of sick.
^^
^^
I hope PH is watching and taking note, because any forum could be victim to this - and now the genie is out of the bottle, it will happen again.

They will have covered their tracks. Cyber crime is very very hard to trace if the criminal knows what they're doing.

The constant minimisation on this thread is shocking.

They get a kick out of sharing such sick images. It’s horrific. It’s the worst thing in the world, the absolute worst. I couldn’t say what I would like to do to the perpetrators here.

Because, though I know people have objected to the use of the word, whoever posted this was using images of child abuse to troll MN and MN users. They used what they thought would cause the greatest reaction and distress to the women on this site.

Of course not - but the haranguing of Justine and the MN staff about not having an immediate response to it (and I am not saying you have done - but others have) when they have more pressing issues to resolve is completely inappropriate.

Were MN naive? Probably, yes, but they didn't have a crystal ball either - there was no way they could know that something that has worked for over 10 years all of a sudden wouldn't.

I know they did. I’m not blaming NW in any way.
They should have had access to the report system. To say that reporting works 24/7 is wrong. It didn’t.

None of this is NA’s fault. They did the best they could.

If you use apple it's impossible for you to be traced. And apple have refused to unlock the phones of mass killers

Neither did I - but Justine and the team are focusing on what they can do immediately and in the short term to stop this happening again - setting up a paid, overnight, moderating staff is not a quick fix - you can't just move current day time staff to an overnight contract and you can't just bring people in without vetting and training.

I don't think they have totally fixed the problem yet though.

They have suspended ability to post -temporary measure.

They are looking into AI filters to prevent posting such material - This is a great step and much needed but it isn't implemented yet and no filter system can be 100% reliable.

They are changing the algorithm to reduce the number of times something needs to reported at night before the thread is pulled - again this will be a big help but I'm not clear if has actually been done yet. It also can't be 100% effective especially if it is a quiet night and the posts are in quiet corner of the site.

They have arranged for someone senior to be "on call" at all times. - an important and great step that can be implemented immediately but I (and many others) feel it won't be enough. For instance the senior person could decide to stop the ability of people to upload photos temporarily, but will someone with the technical expertise to do that be available at 3:00am? There needs to at the very least be someone who can access the system and do all the actions a daytime moderator will do (access reports, ban posters etc) if needed. It has been shown that people without this type of access can't handle something like this. The Night Watch had to ask people to post links to CSA images in order to know where they were in order to hide the thread. That really wasn't on ( not blaming NW, they did the best they could with the tools they had). Of course we all hope that the new AI and changes to automated systems will prevent stuff getting though but that can't be totally guaranteed and they need a failsafe back up!

Your posts are very disappointing because it's quite clear you are willing to consider ANY option other that paying properly trained staff to work overnight.
You're looking for cheaper options basically and it feels money grabbing and dismissive.
I've personally vowed to visit mumsnet far less often now to minimise my own risk of inadvertently viewing content I don't want to see.
If mumsnet aren't willing to pay proper staff in order to safeguard users and volunteers better, we will safeguard ourselves by staying away 👌

There's lots to deal with but defending the use of volunteer moderators by saying they're all in different time zones and abroad is ludicrous. Doesn't stop them being properly trained and paid.

But at the moment Justine seems to be saying she isn't going to set up a system with paid trained moderating staff but continue to rely on the volunteer Nightwatch. That is what we are expressing concern about.

Not still suspended though. 😕

I deleted my account after this happened. Then signed up for a new one. So I can confirm regs are open

Mumsnet made £2.3m of profit for 2023 after tax. Can't they spare even 5% of that to hire 2 or 3 proper staff for overnight moderation?

Greed.

Really - Would be interesting to see them - following yours and another poster's comment about there being threads in the past I did a search for "Nightwatch" AND "paid" (also "Night watch" AND "paid") going from Friday last back to 01st Jan 2020 - there were two or three threads specifically about the subject and a scattering of odd comments on other threads - on a site as busy as MN it doesn't seem like a lot at all!

Unless you did that before they suspended registrations

You should have tried "nightwatch" and "volunteers"

Is she? Where?

She said

"NightWatchers are long-standing, experienced Mumsnet users who live in different timezones and who very kindly have offered to help keep an eye on things overnight. They do have some admin tools to manage situations (they can hide posts and threads and suspend users) and we are looking at ways in which we can augment these tools, including improving alerts when a thread is being widely reported.

It’s worth noting that many large platforms rely almost entirely on volunteer moderators.

The issue on Sunday night wasn’t night watch controls or moderation - it was that these images could be posted at all. Even if this had happened during the day, they still would have appeared on the site. That’s why our focus is on preventing this kind of content from being uploaded in the first place."

That doesn't say they aren't considering it does it? If, in three months time, they still don't have a decent UK night-time moderation system, then fair criticism, but the continual haranguing over it now is silly as it is a policy decision which needs HR, contractual and legal input and cannot be announced on a whim.

You don't yell at a building owner for not having smoke alarms and sprinklers when they have just put out a fire and are trying to stop it re-igniting!

It happened in 2007 I think on the Daily Mirror forum and this is the only time since I've known it, so Genie's been in the bottle for a long time.

Why doesn't everybody just leave it now, it's not as though you're shareholders in the company. Although by the way some fire directions and demands at how to run the business, you think you have some entitlement to it.

58 results - mostly just explaining who they are - looks like maybe one additional thread questioning why they are not paid

the first I heard of this was on the news today and I'm absolutely shocked,it's good that Mumsnet is engaging with the police

I'm completely lost for words how someone could be so sick,as a victim of csa myself I can't get my head around how someone would target a site predominantly used by women who are parents.

I feel sadness and sick to the stomach for those who had to encounter this,I've had to report a few twisted posts in my time but never ever thought that something like this could happen.

I hope those responsible for this sick crime are brought to justice very swiftly and spend a very long time well away from society