Any chance of a review of the FWR moderation rules in light of Maya Forstater's success in court please?

[ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn]

The belief that transwomen are men and that transmen are women has been accepted as a legitimate and protected belief, yet we are not able to state this on Mumsnet under the current rules.

It has become increasingly difficult to discuss feminist issues on the dedicated feminism boards as a result of the moderation rules.

In light of Maya's success in court, and that 'gender critical' beliefs are considered protected under the Equality Act, would it be possible for the FWR sex/gender mod rules to be re-visited please?

twitter.com/SakuraNoSeirei/status/1404730253524844544?s=09

And here we go. Separating the board makes it even easier to target. No doubt every single thread will get targeted and mass reported.

Screenshot for those without Twitter

@Xenia

..and yes, Lang's post was wonderful just above... And the other issue for websites is money and advertisers. Look at the mess vodafone has got into today and has back tracked on withdrawing advertising from GB news. These are difficult issues now social media is so prevalent and the woke left and the liberal left are so far apart on so many topics.

Indeed.

Last year a social media intern at the Co-op declared the business would no longer be advertising with Mr Neil's Spectator magazine, which turned out not to be true.

Today the Co-op decided to fight back against left-wing calls for companies to suspend advertising on GB News, saying the would advertise where they like and defended the 'editorial independence' of the media.

Sorry, I meant to add it doesn't really make sense to attack advertisers. Advertisers want to sell their stuff to the biggest audience possible. Otherwise they'll go broke.

What is Sakura suggesting, there, exactly? Could anyone spell it out for me?

In fairness, they probably report everything already anyway. But yes some will see this as a green light welcoming it more.

I really don’t get it

Reading posts on a site you loathe just to report them

I mean 4chan gets mentioned a lot

Sounds dreadful so I don’t go on there

Fruit farmers…don’t go on there

Netmums…don’t go on there (I’m sure it’s lovely but ticker tapes and hun aren’t my things)

Does someone who is, by their own words, banned from the site, have moral authority to moderate the posts of our community?

Weird that they included a hashtag, presumably to get attention from anyone searching for "#mumsnet", but couldn't tag the actual Mumsnet Towers twitter account correctly, so anyone following MN account wouldn't see it.
Anyway, I'm sure they have lots of accurate and valuable input.

@LangClegsInSpace. Thank you.

@JustineMumsnet. This poster speak sense.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

I mean 4chan gets mentioned a lot

Sounds dreadful so I don’t go on there

Fruit farmers…don’t go on there

Netmums…don’t go on there (I’m sure it’s lovely but ticker tapes and hun aren’t my things)

I think the ticker tapes were ditched a while ago. I still don't find it very intuitive though.

Aw Netmums, not been on there for absolute years lol
#pastblast
Used to be on there originally but then think I came over here via a "pitch invasion" thread where basically Mnetters came across to say "you smell" or something and I visited Mumsnet out of curiosity and never left
Must be going on at least 10 years ago now

This thread is weirdly glitchy for me, anyone else? It's being regularly posted on but is way down my list of Threads I'm On? @MNHQ can you advise?

You've seriously been doing this schtick for 10 years

This shtick?
Lol, I presume you mean commenting on FWR threads and trans threads?
Nope, it is possible to be a very active member of MN but not post on those/there you know.
Only been commenting on trans threads approx past 2 years or so

On splitting FWR

To quote one email we received this morning, ‘There is definitely a sense that Feminism Chat is only a place to discuss gender critical feminism. Any posts which question GCism get flooded with hundreds of hostile responses. Which might be more fair if MN was an explicitly GC site, but it portrays itself as a space for all feminism.’

The email you quote does not support your proposed solution. That person is not saying they want to discuss topics that are not about gender ideology and its effects. Their complaint is, 'Any posts which question GCism get flooded with hundreds of hostile responses.'

They want somewhere they can 'question GCism' without challenge.

I'd like some clarity on this.

Is it your intention to move ALL discussions around gender ideology and its effects to the new topic, including those who wish to 'question GCism'?

Or is it your intention to provide a space for people to 'question GCism' with no right to reply from regular fwr posters?

Just to get it out of the way, 'hostile responses' usually means 'lots of people disagree with me' or 'I don't have a sensible answer to this question'. If you want a real time example of this then go on twitter and look at discussions around the Fawcett Society and Ayesha Hazarika's article in the ES.

This is how it went last time:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1501328-Time-to-Split-the-FWR-forum

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1506544-FWR-split-continued

Hadn't seen those, thanks LCIS. Interesting(?!) that the same discussions about derailing trolls and hostility were happening 12 years ago!

This is how it went last time:

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

[quote LangClegsInSpace]This is how it went last time:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1501328-Time-to-Split-the-FWR-forum

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1506544-FWR-split-continued[/quote]
Aaah, that'll be why it feels like Groundhog Day

Nowt ever changes then, truly is Groundhog Day lol

Didn't see last post before posting, yep there you go lol

@CardinalLolzy

Hadn't seen those, thanks LCIS. Interesting(?!) that the same discussions about derailing trolls and hostility were happening 12 years ago!

Interesting. So women talking about their rights and feminism has always been targeted and gender ideology is just the latest reason in a whole list.

Not at all surprised.

It just won't matter what you call things or how you try to split topics up. The problen isn't a lack of virtual space. The problem is (and always has been) that feminism isn't a welcoming inclusive topic. It can't be. It's not a cosy group of ladies talking about naice topics in a lovely way, who delicately yield the floor to every newcomer. It's a bunch of pissed-off, exhausted women who can't believe the shit they're still seeing.

Until we are forcibly shut up and banned, the other side won't ever be happy, they will keep prodding you endlessly for deletions and bans. That's because it's not about virtual spaces, it's about silencing women - which is the exact thing that has happened throughout history. This is just the same old shit in a new vehicle.

On the FWR boards, we don't always get on or agree with each other (and God knows I've winced at some things people have chosen to say, talk about, or the way they've said it) - but that's part of being a mature adult - knowing that people aren't robots and you can't just make them act the way you want.