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Original poster

'Liberal Feminism' subtopic

93 replies

PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 18:21

Hi @MNHQ

Following on from this AIBU thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3804680-To-think-mumsnet-needs-a-separate-Gender-section?

There was limited interest in a 'separate Gender section' but some agreement that a 'Liberal Feminism' topic might be a good thing.

The idea of this would be to create a subtopic within FWR that was free of TWAW debate, without affecting any of the existing FWR topics where TWAW debate features heavily.

I'm aware you are reducing the number of topics at the moment rather than adding to them, but I thought it was worth floating the idea.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 27/01/2020 18:28

Not sure I agree. I pick and mix my ideology. Also, I think it's bad to divide us into tribes...the more we talk with each other the more we can understand each other's POV

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/01/2020 18:28

I really can’t make my mind up if its a good idea or not

But

A lot of people seem to like the idea so I certainly think its worth a punt

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/01/2020 18:29

midge

Those were my thoughts...but i would certainly go on both boards if the threads were interesting...i lurk a lot

midgebabe · 27/01/2020 18:30

Well I guess if people really want it...

Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 18:31

I take your point, Midgebabe but the idea wouldn't be to separate posters - more to separate topics.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 27/01/2020 18:32

Topic separation does get difficult though. I have been on threads that have seemingly nothin to do with trans and then people whose motives I doubt wade in with a swerving post...

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/01/2020 18:32

Well I guess if people really want it...

I want doesnt get Grin

This is why I’m torn...I don’t like the idea myself

midgebabe · 27/01/2020 18:33

Are you my mam?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/01/2020 18:35

Yep

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/01/2020 18:35

I was certainly channeling someones mum 😀

ElizabethMainwaring · 27/01/2020 18:37

No.

theflushedzebra · 27/01/2020 18:38

I think there is already too many subsections on Mumsnet already. But if it'll stop people whinging about FWR (which I doubt!) then sure.

Cohle · 27/01/2020 18:40

I personally don't think more division in feminism is the answer.

Pottytrainingwoes · 27/01/2020 18:42

I think a subsection would work! There’s lots of feminist topics that seem unused at the moment that could be replaced with ‘non gender critical feminism’ or similar.
Lots of people want to get involved in feminism but are put off by the trans discussions that dominate.

Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 18:49

Yes, my thought was that it might encourage new posters. That's an interesting idea to replace an existing topic (though in the OP I was trying to avoid anything which might suggest taking space away from GC posters). 'Feminist Theory' doesn't seem to get many posts.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 27/01/2020 18:51

Polly, can I object to the implied equivalence of gender critical and trans.

I think it's over simplifying, it can come across as accusing any gender critical,person of transphobia.

I thought liberal feminism was more to do with how much you feel women's issues are determined by individual as opposed to society influence?

Blistory · 27/01/2020 18:53

But liberal feminists - in the true sense - don't believe TWAW as a rule.

Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 18:58

The idea wouldn't be that posters had to believe TWAW, Blistory - just that the board wouldn't be the place to debate that issue. Liberal Feminism was one of the names suggested on the AIBU thread. It could be called 'Non Gender Critical' feminism, though I think a name which didn't attract non-genuine posters looking for a bunfight would be ideal so my personal thought would be to avoid 'gender' in the title.

OP posts:
7Days · 27/01/2020 19:05

I dunno.
There have been plenty hoo has over the years with people not liking the direction the FWR was taking. Not one of the new topics that were provided ever took off.
Let anyone who wants to start a thread, start one. I am sure the regulars at FWR would respect a thread that specified in the OP that it was coming from a liberal perspective, or non GC or however the individual wants to define it.
It works elsewhere on the site - people respect support threads for example. It would work here too, imo.

LangClegsInSpace · 27/01/2020 19:13

There would need to be support from the posters who would actually use that topic.

Feminist theory was invented in the horrific aftermath of that time they tried to make a radical feminism subtopic to put dittany in. That went well.

There wasn't that much discussion of pro-gender ideology at the time. There was a lot of outrage when feminists critiqued things like the removal of body hair because they were a feminist and they removed all their body hair and it was their choice and feminism was apparently all about choice and bla bla. It was felt that a forum called feminist theory would allow discussion around certain issues without people taking it so personally.

Feminist theory could be replaced but there are a few good threads on there that it would be a shame to lose. Maybe it would be possible to merge them with FWR chat.

It would only work if the people asking for it are the people who would use it. Making a topic to send other posters to is a recipe for disaster.

Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 19:14

What were the new topics, 7Days? I've only been on MN for four years, so I don't have the benefit of hindsight that many older posters have.

OP posts:
Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 19:20

Yes, I agree LangClegsInSpace. Perhaps it could be trialled for a couple of months to see if it was used.

I apologise if, by mentioning Feminist Theory, it sounded as though I meant the threads there were unimportant and could go. I was thinking that they could be added to one of the more well-used topics, as you suggested.

OP posts:
LangClegsInSpace · 27/01/2020 19:22

I think the new ones were feminist theory and feminist support and FWR was renamed feminist chat. Activism and book club were already there IIRC.

Original poster
PersonFrom2045 · 27/01/2020 19:24

Ah, thanks for clarifying. Activism and Book Club seem relatively busy, which makes sense if they were the established topics.

OP posts:
Blistory · 27/01/2020 19:28

The issue, doesn't to my mind, seem to be about GC feminists against other types of feminist but more that some GC feminists and some who believe TWAW believe a less fraught debate can be had or that these is scope for a different approach. Others don't.

I'm not so sure that the trans discussions on FWR are a debate and seem to be more of a fact finding, tactical approach to oppose transactivisim/provide safeguarding/protect women's rights. Debate is a whole other issue and I'm not convinced that FWR is the right place for that at the moment given that it has become a gathering point for a specific approach IYSWIM.

I don't particularly enjoy that FWR isn't the place for debate on trans issues but I can also see that there aren't many places online for women to gather to discuss activism and I'd rather leave them be and have a more moderate debate elsewhere on MN. I do think that that requires a less 'robust' and accusatory debate outwith FWR and I would hope that could be respected.