Grammar results - what do you think please

[schooling123]

Sorry again for the post about grammar, please may I ask for advice on the performance of this grammar:

It is confusing for me, as there are different 4-9 and 5-9 brackets...

SCHOOL 1 (Grammar by coach)
98% of students gained 5 or more grades at grade 5 or higher
61% of all grades being at grade 9-7
Every student passed English AND maths
48% of students gained 8 or more grades 9-7

Comparing with School 2 ( comprehensive) - local
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), do not not know results of all subjects to compare to school 1
85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)

It is not a fair comparison as these are 2 different school types. You need to be looking at progress 8 scores and attainment 8 scores of cohort of prior high ability which should be available on the UK government website.

Also you need to read up on what the difference is between grade 4 and 5. These results you posted is easy to understand when you know what the grade scale means. Google is your friend.

Thank you. I have just found out more info:

Progress 8
School 1 0.33
School 2 0.93

Attainment score 8
School 1 - 69.8
School 2 57

It might help if you put your post in context. I have just had a look a the results for my old grammar school and they are not dissimilar to those of the school in your post. They did have higher proportion 7-9 at 69%.

You can’t compare these schools. The grammar consists of “top set” kids only- virtually all of them, barring a few special cases- should get at least a 5 in all their GCSEs.

The comprehensive should have children of all abilities, so will get a wider range of reaults. 85% 4-9 in English and maths, is very good for an all ability school.

Sorry, the context is that with school 1 (grammar), it would mean a change of area/ move. We are in a rented accommodation so we were planning to move anyway...but the change of an area is a difficult one as currently from where we live, my DH walks to work and I travel just 20 min to work... so much to consider if moving the area

If your child is a grammar prospect he is going to do well academically at either school. So look at convenience, extra curriculars and your other children. As , I think, people said on your other thread

If your comprehensive sets classes, then it’s effectively a grammar, right?

Where do the kids seem happiest, what’s the uniform/behaviour policy like? What’s the option if you don’t get into grammar? Any after-school groups? Sports teams? I’d say it’s more than just results. School B looks like it’s does well with the top set.

You need to look at ofsted and other measures not just GCSE.

Going back a few years I taught a delightful student who had mover to the UK from Poland age 14 knowing about 3 words of English.

If she lived where you are the grammar wouldn't be an option, so she had to attend the comp. This was in Birmingham where there are grammars.

At 16 she had 10 GCSEs A-C (A* hadn't been thought about) and a D in English language - looking at just GCSEs the school was not very good, for this girl it did a good job.

I know you are not arriving speaking another language, but the point I am making is the extra effort some schools make improves outcomes for all children in the school and if your child is one that needs support in the future is that support there?

These appear to be are the same 2 schools you were comparing in your previous post, where you were told repeatedly that comparing them side by side is not appropriate, that the grammar wasn't worth moving for and the local seemed very good. These stats don't change that.

Have you registered for the slough grammar exams? If not you have missed the deadline for Slough I'm afraid.

Is this the same child you posted about contemplating Eton/Harrow etc for? Who has been preparing for each of 7/8/9/10+?

What is the progress 8 of prior high attainers at the non grammar - that will be the better comparison.

Having seen you other posts you’ve already made up your mind that it is the grammar but need justification. DD is at a Grammer within walking distance, progress 8 is 0.93 and we had no local catchment comprehensive.

Do not get swayed by the results. The grammar is doing worse overall on progress then the local school, so on that basis (unless the progress 8 for prior high attainers shows otherwise) a bright child will do better in the local school than the grammar. Plus no long travel.

I am still within deadline for Tiffin grammar.

We were considering private ( on a bursary), but as I was filling out applications etc, I realised it is a very risky and uncertain route. i would be worried all the time about finances etc so turned to grammar.

Why do you like the grammar better than the comprehensive? Specifically?

just compared high prior attainers:
PROGRSS 8 score
School 1 grammar - 0.32 - 0.56
School 2 comprehensive 0.59-1.02

Grade 5 or above in English and Maths GCSE
School 1 grammar - 91%
School 2 comprehensive - 91%

It is interesting that Tiffin - 99%, if comparing grammars

Sorry, made mistake. this is correct:

just compared high prior attainers:
PROGRSS 8 score
School 1 grammar - 0.32 (0.08 - 0.56)
School 2 comprehensive - 0.8 (0.59-1.02)

Grade 5 or above in English and Maths GCSE
School 1 grammar - 91%
School 2 comprehensive - 91%

It is interesting that Tiffin - 99%, if comparing grammars

You keep posting about the same thing. As others have said if your child is grammar school material they will likely be in top sets at the comprehensive school.
The progress at the state school is above average. You can go on to DFE website and do comparisons with other schools in the area.
Why don't you just let DC do the 11+ and see if they get into the grammar? They may not even get in.
Make the decision once you know they have a place. You can always turn it down.
I went to grammar school but things were different back then. No coaching or tuition & I don't recall my parents being too bothered either way.
School is more than exam results. It's about friendship, building confidence, shared experience etc. In a decent comprehensive your DC would still be able to get top grades.

Clever kids do well anywhere IMO. DD1 got 7A*s 1A and 2 Bs and has just qualified as a Solicitor. DD2 got 2x9s 7x8s and 1x6. I think their school I think is less than average in results though has a SEN unit :
"62% achieved at least 5 grade 4s including English and Maths and 40% achieved at least 5 grade 5s including English and Maths" - taken from their website for 2018. For both we considered other options. No grammars here but private which we could only have done with a scholarship. This would have involved very long days and both girls thought they'd do well anyway and wanted local friends. Both thrived and as the school put them in sets, they always worked at an appropriate pace. It sounds like your comprehensive school is a very good one and I'd just go for the easy life personally.

I would never move to a grammar catchment unless there was a really great non selective school I could guarantee to get a place at too. So many bright children do not pass the 11+. It’s far too risky.

I thought I’d seen this post loads of times. Are you just going to keep posting until you get the answer you want?

When is your child supposed to start? Many of the super selective s here require you live in the area for 2 years prior to taking the exam. Why not just see what happens after they’ve taken the exam?

Progress 8 is a really useful indicator and looking at what you've posted I would go with the non grammar. I would also be comparing travel times, extracurricular activities, ethos and most importantly which one the child prefers.

Your not comparing like for like. You have school 1 where the social and educational capital of the child's background is high versus school 2 where it's low. Grammar schools ( due to their selective methods) cream off top set pupils. I would ask why in school 1 they are not much higher to be honest!

Which schools are they?

Maybe if you tell us the answer you actually want then people can post what you want to hear?

Here's a thought - visit the schools!

She wants to be told absolutely go for the grammar.

OP. Absolutely go for the grammar.

OP - you can surely see for yourself from the stats you've posted for high prior attainers that the comprehensive school stats are better for this type of DC.

As everyone told you in your last thread, you have an absolutely fantastic comprehensive (on paper)on your doorstep and it really isn't worth a complicated house move and no guarantee of a grammar place at the end of it.

I suspect you are liking the grammar for snob value.

Tiffin gets better results as it is super selective and only selects the top 2 or 3 % of the ability range. Most grammars select a wider age range (depends on area, but typically 20-30%).

You remind me of my mother how constantly tells me that there are no good schools in my area - by good she means ones with top of league table type results (such as Tiffin) - which is just not possible where I live as it's fully comprehensive and schools genuinely take the whole of the ability range. She also refuses to believe that selecting a very able student at 11 and churning out a DC with a string of good results at 16 is not really that clever a trick.

If you prefer the grammar for other reasons such as ethos or extra-curricular activities that is absolutely fine, but IMO these would have to be pretty special to make the move worthwhile. If you try hard enough you can probably find some statistic that shows the grammar is "better" - but why not just be honest with yourself about why you want to go in that direction?