Grammar results - what do you think please

[schooling123]

Sorry again for the post about grammar, please may I ask for advice on the performance of this grammar:

It is confusing for me, as there are different 4-9 and 5-9 brackets...

SCHOOL 1 (Grammar by coach)
98% of students gained 5 or more grades at grade 5 or higher
61% of all grades being at grade 9-7
Every student passed English AND maths
48% of students gained 8 or more grades 9-7



Comparing with School 2 ( comprehensive) - local
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), do not not know results of all subjects to compare to school 1
85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)

[daisypond]

I’m often surprised how badly grammar school pupils do - in that I would expect better results given their selection methods. Re comprehensives- my DD was in set four of an inner city comprehensive, so not the top stream, which was sets one to three, and still got 14 GCSEs, of which 9 were A* and the rest As, including maths and English, three sciences, two foreign languages, etc. I would definitely take the comprehensive. People do cream off to grammar schools in my area, but it’s quite a distance to travel, as there are none nearby, and also a lot go to independents.

[titchy]

She wants to be told absolutely go for the grammar.

In that case, go for the grammar.

[BertrandRussell]

I suspect that the child doesn't want to try for the grammar, or the journey is much more difficult than she says, or someone else in the family is resistant. Or she wants the grammar for snob reasons alone and it’s trying to find another reason.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

OP - you really do need to take on board the comments from posters about value added scores. DD attends a not particularly selective co-ed Indy near Tiffin boys and they regularly outperform Tiffin on GCSEs and A levels. How? Huge value added scores.
There is little point your DS spending hours a day on a bus to be part of a large cohort of bright boys when he could stay local and possibly get better results.

[whiteroseredrose]

What is the behaviour and work ethic like in the two schools assuming that you've visited both?

It's much easier to get good results if all of your peers are hard working and nobody messes about and disrupts lessons.

If the comprehensive has sets, is it for all subjects or just English, Maths, Languages etc?

[Iamnewtothis]

cakeisalwaystheanswer are you referring to Kingston Grammar School as the "non selective indie"? It is extremely selective, I thought, so not a far comparison??

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

No Iamnew, another school I don't want to name as outing but with very similar results to KGS but it is not viewed as particularly selective. It's main intake is it's own and other prep so it's not discussed much on this board.

[HappySonHappyMum]

Because results are the only thing that counts right?! What about how your child feels when they look round the school, what about extra curricular activities, what about it's location. You can't determine the best fit for your child by looking at a set of numbers!!

[schooling123]

Thank you, yes there are many factors not just results. i just feel grammar has more focused work ethic - this is probably the reason...
I now understand about the sets and will ask the question about sets at comprehensive school.
cakeisalwaystheanswer, how do you find out value added scores - is it Progress 8 or Attainment 8?

[MyOtherProfile]

Progress 8 gives the value added because it marks the difference between what a child could do when they arrived and what they could do at the end of year 11. I would want to ask the grammar school why their P8 scores are so low and how they're addressing this. You feel the grammar has a more focussed work ethic but that doesn't se to be having an impact on the children's learning. On the other hand the other school have good P8 so must be doing something right in terms of what the children are learning.

[BertrandRussell]

Go for the grammar. Even though it means your child has a long commute and will get the same results. That’s what you want to hear, isn’t it?

[SabineSchmetterling]

Look. If you prefer the grammar then go for it. But the comp clearly has better results for their context. That doesn’t mean you have to choose it, there is more to a school than results.
Progress 8 is value added and it is this score that determines where a school sits in the league tables. The comp will be well inside the top 1-2% of secondaries with a score like that. The grammar is doing well but not spectacularly so.

[whiteroseredrose]

Academic results aren't the be all and end all. Flunking exams doesn't mean that life is over. There are many routes to a happy and successful life (and I speak from experience!).

However good exam results do give you choices; poor results can block options. So they are important.

I am biased because both of my DC go/went to Grammar schools. Both chose the more academic single sex schools rather than the mixed Grammar with better facilities and extra curricular activities.

It was the right choice for them. The work ethic is strong and everyone wants to do well. My DC were the norm rather than being top-of-the-class. They didn't have any disruptive pupils or bad behaviour so they could just focus on their work. As a result both had absolutely stellar GCSE results.

The thing is that both of my DC are very academic so that culture suits them. A couple of their friends found it too intense so left and were happier elsewhere.

What would suit your son best? Is he academic or would he be happier in a less intense atmosphere?

[BertrandRussell]

This is one of those cases where a poster finds it impossible to believe that a comprehensive can be a good school. They have bought in to the grammar ideology so thoroughly that they are picking through the stats looking for a “gotcha”.

[pepperpot99]

This OP is posting the exact same threads on the eleven plus forum! She/he never bothers to research anything, too lazy, just asks other posters to tell them every single thing.
Just go for the grammar a long way away OP and force your kid into horrible long journeys twice a day for minimum 5 years.

There, sorted!

[SabineSchmetterling]

I this case it is entirely possible that the grammar is less intense. You don’t get results like that comp has by being relaxed about work ethic and academics.

[BertrandRussell]

Oh, and in enforcing the journey, ensure that he can’t take part in sport, or music or drama or any other after school activity.

Because it’s the blazer that counts.

[BertrandRussell]

“You don’t get results like that comp has by being relaxed about work ethic and academics.”
But it’s a comprehensive! it can’t possibly have a good work ethic! And think of all those unsuitable children he’ll gave to share a lunch queue with.

[Hoooo]

So kids at the comp make much better progress.
Grammar schools tend to be skewed towards previous high attained stop so that progress 8 score for the comp is impressive.
Go and visit the schools.

[Hoooo]

previous high attainers so

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Even though it means your child has a long commute and will get the same results. That’s what you want to hear, isn’t it?

Looking at those P8 schools it’s possible they’ll have a long journey and get worse results than if they’d gone to to the comp.

[BertrandRussell]

But ....the blazer!

[ChickenyChick]

You are getting hung up on the stats OP

These are not betting stats , choosing school a does not mean your dc will do better.

The stats are not odds

And as the grammar is an hour away by bus I would just forget about it

How many more threads are you going to start?

[pepperpot99]

Did your dc get into any of the chorister schools OP? that was another of your ideas wasn't it?

[Passthecherrycoke]

Is this is OP from the 11+ forums? 🤣
OP how old is your child? Shouldn’t you be thinking about all of this 3/4 years in advance?