Grammar results - what do you think please

[schooling123]

Sorry again for the post about grammar, please may I ask for advice on the performance of this grammar:

It is confusing for me, as there are different 4-9 and 5-9 brackets...

SCHOOL 1 (Grammar by coach)
98% of students gained 5 or more grades at grade 5 or higher
61% of all grades being at grade 9-7
Every student passed English AND maths
48% of students gained 8 or more grades 9-7



Comparing with School 2 ( comprehensive) - local
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), do not not know results of all subjects to compare to school 1
85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)

[milliefiori]

Fair point Redsky - I have heard it said generally but you're right, here it was relating to the specific school. Just, as a statement it makes me nervous because I often encounter bright children who struggle to fit in or to get work done to a standard they want in mixed ability schools (state or private.)

[RedskyLastNight]

millefiore
I strongly disagree with this statement. It gets peddled all the time. It's not true. Very academic children are known to thrive in settings where being very academic doesn't lead to ridicule, social isolation or exclusion.

The excellent P8 scores for high prior achievers at the comprehensive (better than the grammar), very strongly suggest that very academic children thrive there. The PP did not say "any school" but was referring to the specific school referenced by OP.

[BertrandRussell]

The kids at the school the OP is talking about seem to be able to struggle through the hordes of knuckle dragging, chair throwing delinquents that inhabit all comprehensives to somehow scrape a decent set of exam results.....

[whiteroseredrose]

I think Milliefiori is right. The lack of disruption makes a big difference. Both my DC suffered in primary by being put on tables with troublesome classmates in the hope that they would be a calming influence. It didn't work and it was very stressful for them. It was a relief to go to a different school.

[pepperpot99]

The OP never bothers to visit the schools either. Mad. And super lazy

[milliefiori]

If your child is a grammar prospect he is going to do well academically at either school.

I strongly disagree with this statement. It gets peddled all the time. It's not true. Very academic children are known to thrive in settings where being very academic doesn't lead to ridicule, social isolation or exclusion. You need to check whether there's peer pressure to be cool and not work at a mixed ability school.

However bright you are, if you spend your days putting up with constant class disruption by students who can't or won't concentrate and have no respect for your desire to do well, then you can't learn as effectively as you will in a classroom full of attentive students with high aspirations. Setting doesn't instantly alleviate this problem. I tutor lots of children who say they learn next to nothing all day long because the classroom is so noisy and the teachers are focused on crowd control not content.

Personally I'd go for the grammar unless you have really strong evidence that the comprehensive school has a strong ethos of praising and enabling high achievers. (Some don't, in case it's seen as elitist. Staggering, but true.)

[BertrandRussell]

Blazers.....

[CruCru]

I’m not convinced that this is a decision that can be made based solely on statistics. Have you been to visit both schools? What did you think of them? If a child is going to have a commute to school, you should all be fired up with enthusiasm for that school.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

OP, be warned. DS went to a super-selective grammar and really didn't do as well as he should have done. Indeed, I reckon quite a few of his primary school friends (they were a very bright class) who went to comprehensives, narrowly missing getting grammar school places, will have done considerably better than him in their A Levels. He gave up on being competitive once he knew he wasn't 'top dog'. He coasted up until his GCSE year, redeemed himself reasonably in his A Levels (but not brilliantly). I am convinced he would have done far better being pushed to achieve in the comprehensive.

I feel really bad for falling into the trap of thinking the grammar school would be the best educational environment for him. Ironically I think DD, who I would consider less academic, could end up doing equally as well from her comprehensive school.

And note that many in grammar schools continue with tuition to gain their top grades (certainly the case of many of DS's friends destined to become doctors), so the stellar results don't quite tell the full story.

You could always send him to the comprehensive for Yrs 7-11 and then consider grammar school for sixth form (which would give you more time to consider the viability of a move etc...).

[titchy]

And think of all those unsuitable children he’ll gave to share a lunch queue with.

That's the key thing i suspect. Needing to avoid the oiks.

[Passthecherrycoke]

Is this is OP from the 11+ forums? 🤣
OP how old is your child? Shouldn’t you be thinking about all of this 3/4 years in advance?

[pepperpot99]

Did your dc get into any of the chorister schools OP? that was another of your ideas wasn't it?

[ChickenyChick]

You are getting hung up on the stats OP

These are not betting stats , choosing school a does not mean your dc will do better.

The stats are not odds

And as the grammar is an hour away by bus I would just forget about it

How many more threads are you going to start?

[BertrandRussell]

But ....the blazer!

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Even though it means your child has a long commute and will get the same results. That’s what you want to hear, isn’t it?

Looking at those P8 schools it’s possible they’ll have a long journey and get worse results than if they’d gone to to the comp.

[Hoooo]

previous high attainers so

[Hoooo]

So kids at the comp make much better progress.
Grammar schools tend to be skewed towards previous high attained stop so that progress 8 score for the comp is impressive.
Go and visit the schools.

[BertrandRussell]

“You don’t get results like that comp has by being relaxed about work ethic and academics.”
But it’s a comprehensive! it can’t possibly have a good work ethic! And think of all those unsuitable children he’ll gave to share a lunch queue with.

[BertrandRussell]

Oh, and in enforcing the journey, ensure that he can’t take part in sport, or music or drama or any other after school activity.

Because it’s the blazer that counts.

[SabineSchmetterling]

I this case it is entirely possible that the grammar is less intense. You don’t get results like that comp has by being relaxed about work ethic and academics.

[pepperpot99]

This OP is posting the exact same threads on the eleven plus forum! She/he never bothers to research anything, too lazy, just asks other posters to tell them every single thing.
Just go for the grammar a long way away OP and force your kid into horrible long journeys twice a day for minimum 5 years.

There, sorted!

[BertrandRussell]

This is one of those cases where a poster finds it impossible to believe that a comprehensive can be a good school. They have bought in to the grammar ideology so thoroughly that they are picking through the stats looking for a “gotcha”.

[whiteroseredrose]

Academic results aren't the be all and end all. Flunking exams doesn't mean that life is over. There are many routes to a happy and successful life (and I speak from experience!).

However good exam results do give you choices; poor results can block options. So they are important.

I am biased because both of my DC go/went to Grammar schools. Both chose the more academic single sex schools rather than the mixed Grammar with better facilities and extra curricular activities.

It was the right choice for them. The work ethic is strong and everyone wants to do well. My DC were the norm rather than being top-of-the-class. They didn't have any disruptive pupils or bad behaviour so they could just focus on their work. As a result both had absolutely stellar GCSE results.

The thing is that both of my DC are very academic so that culture suits them. A couple of their friends found it too intense so left and were happier elsewhere.

What would suit your son best? Is he academic or would he be happier in a less intense atmosphere?

[SabineSchmetterling]

Look. If you prefer the grammar then go for it. But the comp clearly has better results for their context. That doesn’t mean you have to choose it, there is more to a school than results.
Progress 8 is value added and it is this score that determines where a school sits in the league tables. The comp will be well inside the top 1-2% of secondaries with a score like that. The grammar is doing well but not spectacularly so.

[BertrandRussell]

Go for the grammar. Even though it means your child has a long commute and will get the same results. That’s what you want to hear, isn’t it?