Has anyone seen my mojo?

[Palavermalarkey]

Not sure whether I should post this in Mental Health or here tbh.
I'm 65, I've just retired from a job I was in for over 40 years, it wasn't always the exact same thing & for the first 20 years or so I really enjoyed it even though it was often very stressy. I wasn't ambitious, didn't get promoted much, didn't care. Certainly never wanted a job in management, I thought they were awful & anyway I liked my role (in tech) & my workmates too much.

I was one of those annoying people who tells others, including my DCs, "get a job doing something you love, then it doesn't feel like work." Yeah, great advice, except when they change your job without warning, all the enjoyment goes out of it & you're slogging along with everyone else, doing it for the money. Last six years since the pandemic have been really awful & I've been ready to go for ages; I got voluntary redundancy (much to my surprise; I had no respect for management & they knew it) so I should be happy. And I'm really trying to be, I know I'm bloody lucky. Healthwise, I'm not too bad - lots of minor stuff rumbling on but nothing serious.

Trouble is, I'm completely stuck. I've got various ideas as to what I might like to do now - mainly writing or podcasting ideas - but I'm procrastinating like crazy. Basically, I'm afraid I'll fail at anything I try to do. After all, who the hell cares what I've got to say? I was pretty good at my job imho but now I seem to have lost confidence completely. People suggest hobbies to me but the very word makes me cringe. Most of the suggestions I've had sound like a way to just numb yourself until you shuffle off; I miss doing work that felt consequential, even if the workplace had become crap.

I went for therapy after some pretty horrible work events & it helped me detach but now I just feel isolated. Turns out my work friends - mostly a little bit younger & still working - were just that: friends at work. Super difficult to get anyone to meet up, even for a coffee, everyone's too busy. Two of my closest work friends, ones I felt were proper lifelong friends, have emigrated, one of them very recently, so I'm a bit lonely tbh. Sigh, I know this is very much a first-world problem, but has anyone felt like this or come through this sort of thing? - and if so, stories please on how you got your mojo back.

I’m in a similar situation as you & the same age. If it helps, a friend who is a few years older strongly advised me to do nothing for 6 months. I’m in the middle of that time frame & obviously keenly considering what I might like to do with my time. I’m sure I will do some volunteering. I have people skills, qualifications and experience in dementia & disabilities, so it might be along those lines. I want to stay fit & healthy, so will try out some local classes now I’m not restricted to those that fit around my work schedule. I get what you mean about hobbies. I like walking & reading & these are so easy to engage in that I must admit I have been doing them! As regards starting something new & not being very good at it: who will be judging that? If it’s you, try to be easier on yourself. It’s not like work where you were probably paid to perform at a certain level. If you join a group & some (or even all) are better than you at whatever it is, so what?

I hope this helps! Happy to keep in touch via this thread.

I think it just takes time for things to settle. Presumably, because of the unexpected redundancy, you hadn't made any retirement plans or thought about it seriously. It's a huge life change. I would suggest you knock off any bucket list items or house projects first. Travel is always a popular option too. Could you visit your friends who emigrated?

Most of my recently retired friends spent the first year planning and then travelling. Now they are downsizing or refurbishing to futureproof housing.

It’s sad that you had some negative experiences towards the end of your career. You need some time just to process that and try to draw a line under it.

Sounds like your confidence has been knocked and it’s currently preventing you from feeling positive or trying new things.

Why not write a list of all the things you wanted to do whilst working but didn’t have the time? Reading, gardening, pampering, walking, travelling? You could learn a language or instrument or maybe try Yoga or Tai chi.

You could try some journaling to collect your thoughts. Just take some time to get used to doing what you want to do before making any big decisions.
If you want to meet people look at volunteering or you could look at U3a

https://www.u3a.org.uk/

Absolutely agree with @cheapskatemum she writes a very thoughtful post.

I'm retired through ill health and actually the best thing I did after a long career (teaching) was just do nothing but potter about for most of the first year. I'm still struggling some days (long Covid and Chronic fatigue) but I don't put any pressure on myself.

I would spend as long as you feel like you need telling yourself that you are recovering from burnout and prioritising yourself. Do exactly what you feel like doing and nothing else. Start to journal. Start to plan what a fulfilling life might look like for you - jot notes down of the things you enjoy. Above all realise that you can do things as badly as you like - no one except you is judging. Write a script, make a podcast. Do it for your own enjoyment and to explore what it's like. You don't have to post it anywhere initially if you don't feel like it.

There is no time pressure on you at all.

Maybe look up your local branch(es) of the U3a. Mainly retired/semi-retired and part- time workers 50s+ with access to a huge range of interest and activity groups for a small yearly subscription - sports, music, the arts, history, writing groups, rambling - the list is endless!

What did you like doing (hobbies & pastimes) before you retired?
TBH it sounds to me that you defined yourself through your work and without work, you feel you are nothing.

I was happy in my work but could see the changes coming and decided to take early retirement (57) when the opportunity arose and know I made the right decision.
I didn't search for new things to do, I just had more time to do the things I already loved doing.

I completely agree about work colleagues not necessarily being friends. We arranged meetups afterwards but it wasn't the same and apart from a few text messages now & again, I don't actually see any of them now but TBH, if work was the only thing that we had in common, so be it and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

I retired about 18 months ago and I am still in that 'frozen' stage of just procrastinating. I'd assumed that I'd use all the hours I was nolonger at work to whiz through all those jobs I'd not had time for when I was at work, but it hasn't worked out that way.
I do meet lots of people for coffee, or lunch or a walk, and I have taken up exercising, but I spend an awful lot of time faffing and find it incredibly difficult to get started on anything I am 'supposed' to be doing.
But I've accepted that it is okay. I have (hopefully) 25+ years of retirement ahead of me. If I waste a couple of years at the beginning just pottering. That is okay. I no longer have to be up at the crack of dawn. I no longer have to restrict what I do at weekends because I need to get all the jobs done. I can go out, or meet people on a whim and am absolutely loving that lack or timetable and just following my own 'wants' for the first time in my life.

Yeah, I did define myself through my work. Not many hobbies or interests, my interest was in the job (audio tech). I loved working in a team & basically put a lot of effort in for the team. Not saying I now wish I hadn't, but that stuff fades really fast. If I'm honest, I feel they took me for granted.

I am doing a lot of walking, though. I reckon it helps my brain work; blood flow. I think better when I'm out walking & have conversations with myself. And I record them & use the transcript for my journal. Grand name for it! - just a big load of notes on my phone.

No plans made, I guess I thought I'd have time to do all that now I've left - and I do; but omg I'm making heavy weather of it all. I can't get past a) wanting to do something creative but b) not believing I can. It's so weird: when I was working I had none of these doubts about my ability. But yeah, I absolutely am recovering from burnout, that's spot on. It wasn't even "regular" overwork-type burnout, it was neglect burnout in the final few years, tbh.

I know I have to relax into this. I'm not exactly charging about from activity to activity, just walking and talking to myself, getting odd looks 🙄 and a hundred cups of tea per day. I do stuff around the house & help my grown-up DCs & MIL but somehow I feel I must have more to give. DW still works & I'm worried about becoming the guy who's always available to run round helping everybody else. I know that sounds mean, but I've always done a lot of that & I'm damned if it's just going to fill up my time completely now. Maybe the first skill I have to master is pottering! I'm not very good at it yet. I'll definitely look up U3A.

If I'm honest I'm a bit in denial about the whole thing. I'm telling myself, "Oh you won't just fade away into golf or stamp-collecting, you'll be different from everyone else because you're still going to be doing useful, worthwhile things in the world. Maybe that's what I can't yet accept: that my productive phase is over. I really don't want it to be.

Thanks, everyone.

I had to gradually give up working in academia due to health issues. However I gradually moved into consultancy and I now do postgraduate tutoring online. It keeps me in touch with the academic world and I am entirely in control of the number of students I accept at any one time. This was a natural progression for me and the income is very useful. I use AI extensively and teach my students how to use it.

You say you are interested in writing and podcasts which seems a good start for a side hustle. However you describe yourself as a procastinator. When I have a vague forward plan and lots of unco-ordinated ideas as to how I want to go about something I type it into Copilot or Gemini and it comes up with the suggestion of a plan or routemap. AIs are brilliant at mapping out plans and generating ideas. You are simply using it as an unpaid assistant. The material which goes into the podcast or writing is your own IP.

It's a huge transition and it's floored me a little.
You go from working full on, giving it 100%, to absolutely zero reason to have to get up in the morning and I think it's this loss of role that's so difficult to adjust to.
I too found that workmates just evaporated.
However I'm 8 months in now and I've really started to decompress. Joining a gym is probably the single biggest factor in helping me to recover from burnout. Taking up woodwork would be the second. We are also sorting the house out, all those jobs that have been on hold for years! and we have had several lovely holidays.
You will get there but I'd say it'll take at least a year.

People suggest hobbies to me but the very word makes me cringe

I know what you mean! I've got some interests but crafts, sports and suchlike don't appeal to me.

I'm hoping to gradually reduce my hours but not stop work. I like reading and walking and going on holiday but don't want to do endless travelling- and definitely not in a motor home!

The cheery happy retirees on MN say you shouldn't define yourself by your work. I don't but I do appreciate the structure and routine.

Give the podcasting and writing a go!

DW still works & I'm worried about becoming the guy who's always available to run round helping everybody else. I know that sounds mean, but I've always done a lot of that & I'm damned if it's just going to fill up my time completely now.

Someone very wise told me 'Just because you are 'free' then it doesn't mean you are available' and it's an excellent thing to remember when you are someone who has always been available to help others. I know exactly what you are saying about other people filling up your time, or expecting help - but you need to set clear boundaries with other people about what you are prepared to do. If I don't want to give up time to do something for other I have no issue with now saying, 'Oh, sorry. I've got a lot on and won't have time' or 'I already have plans' or even 'I can't help you'.

I'm actually prepared to say bluntly 'I don't want to help'. I've spent 60 years running myself ragged for others and I'm not doing it any more. I'll help out if it's convenient, I can manage it and it isn't something that leaves me exhausted and resentful. Otherwise - just, nope.

Oh @Hatty65 you give me hope! I'm practising telling the mirror "I've got a lot on" and (scary) "I don't want to help." Gah, it feels so BAD!! The urge to oblige is baked into me hard.

If nobody cares what you say, nobody cares if you fail.

What is failure anyway? Write for you, do the podcast for you. Whether 10 people see it or 10,000 people see it, the joy is in the doing. Anything other than that is a bonus.

I’m a decade behind you and finding the same frustration with management. I have had to fight for a role that is a technical manager rather than a corporate one. I have a working lifetime if technical knowledge and they wanted me to chuck that all away to go out and sell the business instead. I kept telling them there is more benefit from me mentoring junior staff, sharing my knowledge (beyond what is expected day to day in managing them on projects). It took me 2 years to convince them but they finally relented. Still, though, they couldn’t make my title “Director” because I wasn’t bringing in new work. The fact I was making sure they kept existing clients and was getting repeat work didn’t seem to mean anything to them. We need to get over this insistence experienced staff need to move away from the role as they get older. Spending the last decade of your career essentially downloading your brain into younger staff is way better than just removing you from the job then having you retire.

It’s finally time for you to do whatever you want. It will take time to work out what that is, just try whatever you think you’d enjoy. You might do it for a week and hate it, or find you love it and keep going. Have a look at your local area and see what is on offer.

@BoredZelda that is 100 percent how I feel too. We had new people coming in who were amazed at how little training they got. The management's view was simply, "They'll learn." I used to argue this passionately. Yes, they'll learn, but in the worst possible way for all concerned, ie by fucking up. If we've got 10 new staff, and there are, ooh 100 things they need to learn, then with your approach we have to suffer 1000 fuck-ups before they're all up to speed. That demoralises them, and of course annoys the clients. And that's assuming it only takes one fuck-up to get the lesson learned, and they'll never make that particular mistake again. Which is not how human beings learn. Robots, maybe.
Whereas if we train them, and/or mentor them, it's like inoculating them against mistakes. It won't be 100 percent effective, but it'll be a LOT better.
Nope, no training, no mentoring. They have to stand in their own two feet, not be mollycoddled. Training is "old-fashioned", apparently.
So the new staff started running training workshops at lunchtimes; they invited experienced staff like me to run the sessions. I was more than happy to - all this effort was for free, of course. The workshops ran under the radar for a year or so, then management shut them down. What the fuck can you do with people like that? 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

What is failure anyway? Write for you, do the podcast for you. Whether 10 people see it or 10,000 people see it, the joy is in the doing. Anything other than that is a bonus.

@BoredZelda I know this is wise and true; thank you for it. So why can't I just move ahead and get on with it? Somehow I don't regard ME wanting something, as distinct from someone else - DW, DSs, friend, relation, employer - as a "legitimate" reason. I'm not trying to say I'm the complete altruist, I'm as lazy as the next guy, and I often roll my eyes when people want me to do stuff for them. But I'm still reluctant to embark on a project that's just for me. I can sit and read, because I can just put that aside if need be, if something comes up. But somewhere in my head is a critical voice complaining. What, you want to take up the whole day just doing your daft project? I think it's probably my mother's voice.

@LornaDuh oddly enough I always imagined I'd get a motorhome if I retired & had the money. One of my uncles used to take me & my brothers on camper van holidays & I've always liked the self-containedness of them. There's security in knowing you could live in it for days on end if you wanted. But now I'm older, my bones are not interested! Nice hotel or airbnb beds, please. Not a converted car seat. 😁

Younger than you having slipped into very early retirement due to health issues.

I have a very similar problem. I don't feel like anything is worthwhile if I'm doing it for me. I seem to get bored of things very quickly (I'm querying neurodivergency). I've also got a critical voice in my head from childhood that is replaying and I'm currently receiving therapy as I feel mentally stuck not giving myself permission to have fun. What makes it worse for me is that I don't feel like I achieved what I should have done. What I was driven to do whatever that is as I never really found my thing and I have perfectionist tendencies. I feel like a failure. The whole thing has got into a very horrible tangle.

The job I was doing, I didn't have to think about what I wanted to do, just get on with it. Didn't have to think about socialising - people were there for a chat when time allowed as busy job. I now find myself a bit isolated and lonely.

I could quite easily volunteer away my days (and I think some of this would be good for me) but I can't decide where to put my energy which feels limited. I have tried various groups and they haven't worked for me.

I'm also interested in writing which can be a solitary activity. I have written a novel which has only been read by about 20 people. I wrote it primarily for myself.

Nice hotel or airbnb beds, please. Not a converted car seat.

I always hankered after a caravan. Thankfully I've come to my senses 😊

@Palavermalarkey and @barometerneedle should set up a writing group to motivate, encourage and critique each other. I'm not joking.

Forgive me but there's something martyrish about people who are happy to do things for others but reluctant to do something just for themselves. Trust me, your loved ones will bedelighted to see you absorbed in something that interests you.

I'm encouraging DH to indulge in a couple of hobbies (cringe!) now that we're empty nesters. He'd be unbearable in retirement without them.

@LornaDuh I really, really don't want to be that martyr. This stuff comes from somewhere pretty deep. It's a similar feeling to being a child and telling a big, deliberate lie. You get anxious, you start to panic you'll get found out & everyone will see how bad you are. Ok, I'm 65 now - I can rationalise, but the anxiety is still there, not as sharp but still making me worry I'm doing something everyone will agree is wrong, or stupid. It's irrational. And I guess the only solution is to push through. Feel the fear & do it anyway.

@barometerneedle Yeah I know what you mean about the ND. A few years ago I listened to a radio phone-in about ADHD, because I'd long thought DS3 might have it (now diagnosed, long time later). Several experts on it, lots of people with ADHD phoning in. And they were doing their best to describe what it feels like. For example, always having a couple of tunes sort of playing in their heads as they go about doing other stuff. And I thought, omg that's me! I have tunes, lots of them. Some proper ones that I'm simply remembering - earworms in other words - and some that I've literally just made up and I'm looping. Aaanyway, I've long suspected there might be a sort of low-dopamine scenario that recurs in my brain fairly frequently.

And of course, work provided stimulation, it was my Ritalin, if you like. So I/we need to replace that stimulus. Mucking about with golf isn't going to do it. It needs to be something more consequential.

Sorry you feel a failure - but would you agree it's horribly easy to feel a failure in our culture - ie Western culture generally? We're surrounded, apparently, by "success", by people who achieved their dreams, always after starting (acting/playing the piano/tennis) aged 3 and slogging up steep slopes to triumph. Or that's how it's presented, with the odd dollop of modesty & self-effacement if you're British. You don't have to be famous; social media is full of people "curating" their lives to appear happy & successful to others. Even the guy who joins your workplace ten years after you & five years later becomes your boss & starts telling you where you're going wrong is another kick in the teeth, if you're inclined to see it that way. That's one thing I give thanks for: my lack of ambition. I just wanted to be good at my job, that's all. Promotion would've meant losing that pleasure, and exchanging my lovely workmates for a bunch of self-centred greasy pole climbers. No, thanks.

Oddly, I know someone (daughter of a friend) who's got a book coming out next month. The crucial thing, she says, is to get an agent who loves what you do. She talked to dozens, and eventually chose the one who didn't want to edit the hell out of her MS (Oh, man, I wish I had £1 for every "creative" person I've come across who can't actually come up with good ideas themselves, but boy, can they criticise and alter the hell out of someone else's). Sounds like your "thing" might lie in that direction.

You said you may have to accept your productive phase is over. I think I've got some of that going on. I want to be needed, useful. Without that I feel invisible like I'm fading away.

I would never edit someone's work to that extreme. I have written a novel and a poetry collection but I'm by no means an expert. However, I have learnt from having my work copy edited and proof read a few things that might be useful.
I would be very interested to hear how you get on Palaver with your procrastination It sounds as if we are in a similar boat or very similar. I am wondering about the dopamine thing. I need dopamine hits. I'm going to take up some swimming (wondering how long that will last) to give me a boost.
I'm not sure volunteer work is going to hit the mark either but it is more about making my world a bit bigger.

Well, I'm not happy about it. I was productive in a work context; the work - my employer - gave my efforts significance in the world. Now, if I want to carry on being significant, I'm faced with generating my own.

Maybe we both still need jobs. External locus of control to obviate the need to develop an internal locus. Nothing wrong with that; I knew some guys at work who were still going strong in their 70s, still getting a buzz. Tbh I thought I'd be one of them but things just got too sour.

I suspect there are deeper issues to this Palaver. Something, I'm still trying to unpick
I suspect I've got a tidy list of ND, control and perfectionist issues, the need for validation. Some form of existential OCD. Definitely a history of trauma.
The list goes on.
I can't go back to my old working life. A job in which I thought I was making a difference but in reality was only a cog. There's that old saying that people don't wish they had worked more unless I suppose it was an intrinsic part of themselves.
Not sure how you find peace and contentment with this. I suspect whatever I do is not going to quite hit the mark. Could be to do with any one of the things listed above. I can't get my head around how someone can spend their days on the golf course or go swimming, cycling or paint pictures and it is enough. But some people do and can and get much contentment
I wish this was me. I can't find my thing and commit to it.

A job in which I thought I was making a difference but in reality was only a cog.

@barometerneedle I've had this thought a thousand times. But I now believe both things were true. When I was working, I made a difference. I'm a sound guy; I started in film but mainly worked in radio. Most of my colleagues, upon retirement, hark back to major events - elections, Olympics, royal marriages & deaths - as a way of saying "I made a difference"; "These were my finest hours." But the exact opposite is true. I've been part of those broadcasts and I was never more of a cog in the machine. No individuality, creativity or personal qualities are required or could possibly be exercised. You're one bum on a seat amongst hundreds.

If I'm satisfied at all about anything, I'm satisfied that I got up at 3am for the umpteenth time & shepherded a regular, non-event, workaday programme on air for three or four hours. And someone - especially the lonely or the unwell - listened in and got companionship & connection to the world through their radio. And they heard every word as cleanly as possible, thanks to me - most days! Lots of hearing-impaired people out there, lots of people listening in their kitchens getting the kids ready for school or making breakfast. Kettles are boiling; they need good, clear speech, not stupid amounts of noise and music obscuring what's being said before it's even left the loudspeaker. Not that anyone showered me with praise for any of this, quite the opposite! But I knew I was doing a good job so I guess I provided my own validation. 🤷🏻‍♂️

So, I'm not there now; someone else's bum is on my seat & I'm largely forgotten. I sometimes yell at my unknown successors when things get inaudible. Keep your hands on the faders, for fucksake! There were about eighty people in my department, all doing the same job as me. I trained some of them; some trained me. The place was managed mainly by pretty lazy, mediocre people, and still is. I suspect lots of workplaces are. So I was both making a difference AND being a complete and utter cog, simultaneously.

I think this is the sort of issue Tolstoy was trying to get to the bottom of in the battle scenes in War And Peace. How history says Napoleon did this or that and, as a result, this Great Man won this or that battle. But Tolstoy brings the multitude of individual soldiers' actions into it, their courage and fear, the miscommunication, the fog of war. The cogs.

What I want - and maybe you too? - is to carry on having a shot at making a difference. Writing a book. Making a podcast. Passing on what knowledge and experience we have, maybe - though that's going out of fashion. We might succeed - by which I mean, actually get them written - and we might not, but at least we won't be cogs any more.

But here's the rub as I see it. I suspect that, ironically, it was my very "cogdom" that provided a vital prop for my confidence. To be honest, I didn't NEED confidence - I just had to do what was in my job description ffs. I only needed diligence & I had that in spades. Not the same thing at all. But I suppose that also lets me off the hook in a way: if whatever I was doing at work wasn't about me being confident, then at least I don't have to lament its loss. I never had it. So my mojo wasn't really lost; it was actually a different animal. Dunno if that helps either you or me! 🤷🏻‍♂️😁

If the name of your erstwhile employer begins with B then you're well off out of there! You know it's only going to get worse and you've definitely had the best of it.

You'll find your way...it's still early days. You've had good advice on here - not just U3A but the writing too. As a previous poster said, just do it....doesn't matter if it's read by a dozen or twelve thousand people. Think of all the pompous politicians whose voice levels you've checked over the decades...do you reckon they're ever racked with self doubt?

Keep up with the walking and the mobile journalling. Let your mind wander and see what scenarios you can conjure up. If you decide what you have to say isn't worth committing to print, then don't. If you're pleased with what you're coming up with, continue. It's up to you. Do it or don't....Just Do It!
Don't even think of going back as a casual...your full time occupation now is locating that mojo!