How can we get support for MIL and BIL living unsafely?

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TLDR: I’m looking for some advice and maybe some sign posting for help for support for my MIL (68) and BIL (45) who are living in a unsanitary, unsafe, disgusting condition.

It’s long to avoid drip feeding.

My MIL health isn’t great, her mobility is pretty much non existent, she sits in her chair all day and hardly moves, she doesn’t drink any water, only 4x Red Bulls per day and her diet comprises of high sugar. Her health has rapidly declined over the last 10 years. Every 18 months or so she’ll start to have falls and then get admitted to hospital for 2 weeks, starts to recover and the falls stop. Then the cycle will start again. She has got CKD3, Diabetes, Edema (the watery leg swelling thing) and she’s obese.

Her eldest son (my BIL) lives with her, he is unemployed (has been for 10 years), is super mobidly obese (definitely over 26 st, he’s 5ft 8). He has health problems too and is deeply unhygienic - hasn’t showered / washed since 2005.

we visited my MIL today and had to call 111 who called an ambulance. My MIL has been admitted to hospital again after a weeks worth of falls, plus she was slurring, drowsy and incoherent. BIL admitted that she’s been like this for over a week but only told us last night. We believe the cause is dehydration but will know more tomorrow. We could not have discovered this sooner as we live an hour away, work full time plus im 32 weeks pregnant and was blue lighted to hospital at the start of the week with significant bleeding which resulted in a 3 day hospital stay.

My husband is so unbelievably stressed. When we were at his mums house today before calling the ambulance we were deeply shocked at the state of the place. It’s not only unclean, it’s unsanitary. Like shit and piss all over the toilets - her ensuite stacked full of bagged soiled continence pads, it stank. You can’t see the floor in any room, my DH blocked me from entering the kitchen because it’s so disgusting he didn’t want me / his unborn child being exposed to it. DH attempted to clean the downstairs WC so I could use it but instead told me to ‘hold it’ and go to Tesco instead as it was too unsanitary in there.

We called the paramedics and one of them
was close to tears about the state of the house and how two people can live this way. They pulled me aside to get as much info as poss and said they’d raise a safe guarding concern.

My BIL mentioned that he’d been asking the neighbour to help him pick my MIL up off the floor when she had fallen in the week. I went and spoke with the neighbours and she said that she has been looking into how she can raise a safe guarding concern to see if MIL and BIL can get some support.

The issue is, MIL and BIL are both in huge denial about their situation. I don’t know why BIL doesn’t clean or tidy, he’s obese but can walk around and he is a massive contributor to the pigsty.

My MIL refuses to accept any help and will blame us now for her being admitted to hospital again. My DH and I are at a complete loss we don’t know who can help - it is not possible for us to go clean their house as we work full time and have our own house to clean, plus we live an hour away and are expecting our first child. And quite frankly - they are both adults with capacity and my MIL can afford a cleaner.

I guess I am looking for advice on if it’s possible to get someone round to inspect the place, assess both of them and make some recommendations. My MIL is super excited about the arrival of her first grandchild and I need to break it to her that absolutely under no circumstances will I be bringing a newborn to her house as it’s too disgusting and unsanitary there.

I appreciate that this is genuinely awful for your DH but sadly there is nothing that can be done if they have capacity and are unwilling to accept help. If she decides to self discharge once she’s feeling a bit better, the only recourse the hospital have is to refuse to provide transport.

the only thing he can do is withdraw and go no or low contact. She will unfortunately never be the mom he deserves and I’d suggest therapy to come to terms with the fact that that is her loss and nothing to do with him. He will need to grieve that fact.

sorry that you’re having to deal with this and the stresses of your pregnancy.

For all the people saying to get a one off clean to sort the house, the sort of clean you need to dispose of bio hazard waste is very expensive. Why should OP and her DH pay when it might just be back to square one in a few weeks.

i read the guardian article posted, a few days back, and the sort of cases there were where people had let life get on top of them but they fundamentally knew something was wrong, mil and bil don’t seem to be in that space, they are still blaming everyone else and getting teenage neighbours to help them in the middle of the night so they don’t have to call anyone official who will at least note what is going on.

put your health and your baby first op, you almost certainly can’t do anything here

Thank you everyone for the support and sorry for the very long winded messages. It’s been a relief to get this off my chest. I can’t speak to my husband about this right now, his primary focus is me and the baby. He cannot even begin to start thinking about his mum in detail and what to do because he feels he’ll be tipped over the edge. He’s seen both me and his mum be blue lighted to hospital this week and his anxiety is high - he is scared to leave me alone just in case I bleed again (the blood covered a quarter of the sofa cushion where I was sat). He’s terrified and I think in a little shock.

Just to clarify - MIL owns her house, BIL lives with her and her will is split 50/50 between DH and BIL. My husband has all sorts of dread/fear about MIL passing, not only the loss but the fact he’ll have to deal with his brother and somehow gutting the house whilst BIL is just there, slobbing and slithering around.

Very much this, and it’s always the “it’s everyone’s job to make sure I’m alright” that totally discourages any aspect of personal responsibility. The trite “tell them it’s an unsafe discharge” blackmail is appalling.
purposefully blocking a hospital bed because of the lazy and selfish behaviour like this is awful can be mitigated by taking responsibility for the mess, and/or paying for a clean

Absolutely. Some genuine reasons why they should not help her up:

• the neighbour might accidentally hurt her by trying to help her up (eg. wrench her shoulder)
• if a falls team attends, they can check whether MIL has injured herself in the fall
• they will also check whether there was a physical reason MIL fell eg. take her blood pressure, assess for signs of delirium or dehydration, whether she had blacked out etc, and take appropriate action

These might be easier for the neighbour to say than just that they don't want to.
And then when the falls team attends, they have the opportunity to refer safeguarding concerns, or get medical attention.

I absolutely agree with this.

Personal responsibility needs to be taken, and if that's the two of them choosing to live like this then so be it. OP and her DH have so much else going on that needs to take priority, both emotionally and physically. And hospitals and government departments have many others to look after too.

I know it's hard OP because you and your husband sound such lovely, caring people, and my heart goes out to him having family like this - but you and your baby are his immediate family, and if he is made ill from taking on too much of bone idle brother's life then he wont be available to you ❤️

I’m sure the neighbours/people surrounding MIL and BIL are asking ‘why DH/me are not doing more’ which is unfair. We work 45+ hours each, have our own home to keep on top of, plus MIL and BIL refuse to take any accountability for their own health.

There’s absolutely no way either of us would be going round to clean up after two people who do not work and are capable of doing it themselves or at least paying for a cleaner. MIL can afford it, she has a very high disposable income that she spunks on BIL.

Yet earlier you stated that the hospital think MIL is very ill with respiratory failure so likely not able to do it going forward. Hopefully she will be discharged with carers in place.

Don't wish to plant another seed.

But could it be that BIL is financially abusing MIL? If she can't get out and sounds like she has a lot of issues, he may be accessing her finances/controlling things in unhealthy ways.

I mean it sounds like they're both awful, but just be aware that sometimes things aren't always as they seem.

Sometimes people don't even realise that they're contributing to abuse, because to them that dynamic is all they know.

It sounds tragic. The fact that MIL was like this with her father and now her own son is like this with her...as you said codependet.

If Bil does the shopping and is only buying crap; this too could be deemed abuse or negekect.

Probably not going forwards given her condition now however there’s no reason why BIL can’t clean - instead he is a huge contributor to the mess.

Thank you for your kind message and I completely agree. It’s so hard listening to her be so rude to paramedics and hospital staff. I constantly find myself apologising and I hate that she treats people this way.

I think DH is close to the no contact thing… he just seems like a bit of a shell at the moment, perhaps having a break from his MIL/BIL will be a good thing for him 🩷

Sounds awful OP

what happened to DH’s father out of curiosity?

You absolutely have to protect yourself and this pregnancy! Stay far, far away from these people and their problems. Do not go back to see either of them.

I know if something bad happens to BIL or MIL your dh will feel terrible but I can assure you if something happens to you or the baby the pain will ruin the rest of your lives and neither of you will ever forgive MIL and BIL.

Just meditate on the fact that they have each chosen this life and everything that went with it and that goes with it including, sadly, the death that goes with it.

Turn everything you can over to local professionals and then just tell your dh that you will not be talking or thinking about them at all until baby is safely here and you have three months of calm baby time.

There is not enough time or energy in your lives to take on this burden. Please just think only of your little nuclear family.

I am not sure about financial abuse but it definitely isn’t healthy - I am happy to be guided/corrected on whether there is financial abuse going on.

MIL gives BIL £600 per month spending money, he also gets job seekers benefits (I don’t know how much), she also lets him use her bank card which is uses for their weekly food shop. She will be allowing him to use it now when she’s in hospital to ‘make sure’ the food is all topped up. I don’t know if he takes money from her bank or uses it for anything else other than Tesco - I don’t think he does. MIL pays for BILs cab to the job centre ever fortnight because she feels bad that she can’t drive him anymore. She will say things like ‘[BIL] has been really good’ in the context of getting the food shop ordered and unpacked and making her the odd dinner. Which is crazy to DH and I because we think that’s the least BIL can do considering MIL is paying his way.

MIL Does seem to give high praise to BIL for very basic things, things like we wouldn’t even consider. Like he brought in a can of red bull for her so she didn’t need to get up - that sorta thing.

DHs dad left when he was 2 and was a bit of a Disney dad until he was like 12. He has no relationship with him. However DHs grandad was around and was kind of like a dad to DH. The grandad (MILs) dad was totally normal and would be ashamed of this situation.

This is great advice thank you. I needed this, I have been so focused on the state of their home and living situation I need to just focus on myself and the baby. I will do the SS report’s tomorrow then leave it at that.

I don’t know if it’s of any help to put a name
on it - and apologies if this has been mentioned already, I haven’t had time to read the whole thread - but this is a recognised psychiatric disorder known as Diogenes’ Syndrome. It might be helpful to ask if Liaison Psychiatry could see your MIL while she’s an inpatient.

Ignore everyone talking rubbish about 'personal responsibility'.

The fact is, both MIL and BIL and the state want you to take responsibility, and you simply can't. You have to do what you can to protect yourself and make sure they actually get the help they need from the state.

Also ignore everyone saying to simply pay for a clean...they have no idea of how entrenched and stubborn people in these situations are, if you pay for a clean you might as well just throw a few thousand pounds down the toilet.

My advice would be to simply disengage, particularly as you are pregnant. No more hospital visits or home visits.

There was a mother and son duo who lived for years on a street bench in tooting, day and night outdoors, surrounded by their belongings. It was very sad. No one ever managed to get them to accept help. You might find this article interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50211901

That sort of cleaning is ££££

They sound severely depressed? How did it get to this at such a relatively young age? Has BIL ever had a relationship, own home or job? It’s dysfunctional but with the right help and willingness they can turn their lives around. I hope social services can offer something. Who else have they got who care about their wellbeing? Other family or friends?

I agree with us not paying for their home to be cleaned and fumigated. It would cost at least £1200-£2000+. I’d rather use that money to have some extra mat leave. Especially as MIL paid for a clean around 4 years ago (it wasn’t as bad then) and it has just got worse since.

BIL has never worked, never had a girlfriend, doesn’t have any friends etc. MIL has never gotten over the death of her dad (he died 20 years ago) and she talks like it happened yesterday. BIL blames his issues on his dad abandoning him when he was 5 and being a Disney dad - it’s all excuses if I am honest. Not that it’s a competition but my life / childhood has been significantly worse and more abusive than BILs. So I struggle to understand him blaming his dad for his life woes. He’s got it pretty cushty never having paid a bill in his life :-/

I am going to call the hospital now for an update. Hopefully I can raise a safe guarding concern. If she is discharged I’m going to have to have the awkward conversation with her that I will not be allowing her granddaughter around when she’s born. Unless she gets a regular cleaner in.

Having worked in home care.. trust me when I say there are many adult children that live like this.
The parents infantilizing is a form of codependency/emotional abuse and they have no concept of how abnormal it is because it's normal to them.

I have been in many places where I've wanted to wipe my feet on the way out. Social services get involved as best they can, but it's really tricky as the family will be deemed as having capacity despite utterly vile living conditions.

It's almost like a stockholm syndrome type situation in these cases.
The BIL would be better in supported living and being encouraged to reach his potential.
The MIL needs some intense therapy if she is suffering complex grief (in that she hasn't accepted the DH death despite it being 20 years ago)

Tragic all round.
And frustrating for those around them

Sorry meant to quote this one

Just spoke with the hospital - they’ve said her health condition is 100% lifestyle related (dehydration, obesity etc) and her current stint in hospital is because of her sleep apnea (we did not know that she even had this but unsurprised tbh). NHS have referred an occupation health assessment due to the bio hazard at her home - I think the paramedics safeguarding thing has been flagged but I also emphasised that she needs help with personal care and a cleaner.

DH is not going to tell her about the OH assessment about the unsanitary condition of her house because she will only blame him and tbh it’s not worth it. He just called and updated her about everything and that she may be discharged today / tomorrow. MIL was so unbelievably rude and ungrateful to DH. He’s fed up and done! I actually think this is the final straw for him now.

I am tired and exhausted with it all if I am honest.

This is really interesting and thank you for sharing. I can see this with MIL / BIL. The way MIL is forever making excuses for him, it’s like she doesn’t want him to move on but also, BIL doesn’t want MIL to be independent because that means he loses his cushty set up.

Its so disfunctional and I really can’t see it changing for the better - it will only get worse.

Both of them have sleep apnea and a lot of obesity related health conditions. It’s not a good sign at all.

I mean this respectfully, but why is your DH pussy footing around the issue?
He ought to just say "they're doing an assessment because your home is a health hazard" ...even if she kicks off, you've already said you're not taking the baby there, so it's no loss.

I know it's hard. But in a way your DH is also enabling it by being too afraid to rock the boat. The boat needs rocking!!
They HAVE to hear the truth, maybe that is going to be the wake up call they need to agree to having this sorted?