I hate going on holiday with husband and his family

[livelyparsnip]

Married with 3 children.

i want to know if Im being unreasonable about the following.

husband has a large immediate family, siblings and mother. And they’re all very attached to each other. Husband will call his mother every day on the way home from work and stand outside the house talking to her before coming in to see me (I find this very difficult, it feels as though he has a private life with his family that I am not allowed to see or hear). They don’t live nearby but I always welcome them coming to stay for weekends, I cook and clean and make them welcome, but I feel like I lose the children entirely when they arrive, his family seem to engulf everything, they overshadow me and feel very controlling and overwhelming. I feel as though there are invisible tentacles strangling me.

anyway, it is expected that we go on holiday with them every year to a resort. The same thing happens. I feel panicky when they’re around and I feel a huge urge to protect myself and my children from husbands family. It’s hard to explain but there are no boundaries at all and any gentle boundaries i try to establish come across as me being unreasonable and controlling.

i want to know what this sounds like?

for full disclosure, I am now divorced from this man (this was not the only reason this happened, there was plenty of other stuff) but Im plagued by memories of this kind of thing and I want to know if it sounds like I was the problem, or was he? I never told him how I felt about his family, because it didn’t feel possible.

Just one annual at the moment, ex has almost 50% of the time at the moment

@BurntBroccoli this is my feeling with it, I just hope they’re able to choose rather than succumb to the guilt tripping they get subjected to

No I think you need to trust your own judgement here.

I am friends with a number of siblings from a large, social family whose circles all interconnect. In our youth we all admired them and how well they got on. There are eight siblings.

Three have married their teenage partners who didn't really have family support of their own and got fully absorbed in. Two married teenage partners who had equally large loud families who are now like cousins to them all.

Of the remaining three two are perpetually on the edge of divorce with wives who are utterly demonised. They are judgemental, difficult, unyielding etc.

The final adult siblings is single with a string of partners who don't last and who won't join in with the huge tribe feel.

The adult siblings now also have some cracks in the relationships. The nearly divorced two are distant and unreasonable.

From an outside perspective this is how it looks -

They are less close and more interdependent. They have created their own social rules and they are the unyielding ones wto anyone who shares different opinions. They don't respect boundaries. They expect everyone else to accept behaviours that would not really wash in other environments -

Ongoing drug use and alcohol over consumption - none of it discrete
Bizarre hypocrisy around pretending to be religious when the GPs arrive
Communal approach to all items so expensive stuff constantly gets ruined
No privacy in relationship issues or family affairs

They are extremely kind generous people but i would hate to be enmeshed in their clan.

Another one struggling to understand the specifics of what they have done wrong, other than being, presumably, loud and quite overbearing.

You've hinted at much more significant issues (emotional abuse, your children being very upset at hand overs) but you haven't explained the specific problem behaviours that are causing this.

It would be helpful if you could give clearer examples of what they are/or aren't doing (which is objective) rather than telling us how you feel about it (which is subjective).

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling as you do, just that it is hard to know from what you've written so far.

I don't know. There are just not enough details here to decide what they did wrong. We just know that you felt they were overbearing. You seem to be a more individualistic person. They are more tribal. It could be just a difference of characters, incompatibility. I think maybe you took some things too personally. But you cannot change people like them. I'm not sure what bad things they supposedly have done to your kids. You just don't seem to like their way of life, being, etc. We cannot shelter kids forever from everything, they also need to grow resilient to manage on their own when they grow up. Maybe you could have become part of their family if you made an effort, but you felt like your personal boundaries are more important to you. You made a choice but I don't think we can tell you whether it was good or bad - we have no idea!

sorry - I understand that it sounds like I might be being deliberately opaque. I suppose I don’t feel keen on being too detailed. And yes, perhaps I was right to feel like they were very intrusive but I also hear those of you that are saying maybe it’s just a different style of being in a family. I really don’t know.

to give some more details: I don’t believe they create a very safe environment to be in. There is a lot of hidden stuff, the only feelings that appear to matter are the mothers (i.e MIL), everything revolves her and she rules through guilt and shame. In the other siblings there is closeted and unmentioned sexuality issues (completely unspoken but elephant in the room), severe OCD, eating disorders, and high functioning alcoholism.

I married into a family like this. I found it extremely difficult for the first 10-15 years. There were more arguments, tears, tantrums etc than you could count.

Something clicked in me around 10 years ago though. Suddenly, I didn’t see them as a threat anymore. My kids were a bit older and I realised that they didn’t need protecting from their extended family. That everyone adored my kids and my kids were lucky to have them. I don’t know if it was age or maturity (on all our parts) but I suddenly didn’t feel judged or encroached upon by them anymore.

I am now very close to all my in-laws. I probably speak to MIL more than DH does now! My kids are teenagers with their own phones so regularly speak to their family and maintain those relationships independently. In fact DD16 told me yesterday that she’s spoken to her GP’s and arranged to go and visit them for a few days next week. I would not have believed you if you had told me this is what our family dynamics would be like 10 years ago.

It is hard marrying into a family that has a completely different dynamic to how you grew up, but there can be light at the end of the tunnel.

You haven't given any examples that can help us form an opinion. I actually think you are the one who sounds unreasonable. A person is allowed to have a private conversations with his relatives that doesn't necessarily involve you, so I don't understand your need to be part of your husband's conversations with his mother. She's not your mother, snd, frankly, you're not entitled to know everything he speaks to his family about. Everyone is allowed privacy and personal relationships in a marriage.

The holiday situation is neither reasonable or unreasonable, because you haven't mentioned what kind of boundaries were crossed. It could be that they're not respectful, but it could also be that you have too strict boundaries. We don't know.

It sounds like this worked out brilliantly in the end! Thats great, im glad to hear it

I think maybe should have let go a bit with his family. Take a step back, do your own thing, take advantage of free time if they take over childcare. Sounds like you were trying to control things when you can't. But of course it's so hard to know. Sure you did your best but maybe something about that dynamic was hard for you.

I think minding that he talks to his mum outside the house is a little sad and overbearing. Its what I would do. If it's ages every day id be annoyed but only cos is delays when i get a break from the kids! Sorry to be harsh, don't know how else to put it. Can you imagine a man being upset his wife wants to talk to her mum without him hearing?

My husband's family does not recognise boundaries. At all.
Grandchildren are seen as children and grandparents see themselves as the ones who should be in charge. It is thought to be normal to see in laws 4 days a week.

All this has taken a massive strain on my marriage and I'm not going to lie, I'm a very sad person for this. It got somewhat better recently but I'm so bloody tired of having to fight for boundaries.

Thought about divorce some time ago but it was not a good solution as if we split and DH lived in his own house and we co parented, his mum would be in his house every day he had kids. I don't think he would've been able to have any 1:1 time with the kids.
When his parents went out of town for a week, I felt I could breathe. His mum wanted to push me out and replace me to a point where I genuinely thought kids would be better if I died since I'm so useless anyways. DH was demanding that his mum has kids on my day off just to please her. So yes, I ended up in a family where it was more important to please MIL and prioritise her spending time with kids. I think I developed PND as a result.
One thing I can say for sure - if I am lucky enough to have grandchildren and be a MIL in the future,I will never be selfish and put myself first. Never.

The OP is now divorced.

This is so reassuring to read.
Thank you so much for sharing ❤️

Sounds annoying. I mean. I can understand visiting one day around Christmastime and seeing people on birthdays, etc, but holidays? A little bit incestuous. I have a family that completely fractured, so being suffocated isn't something I know well. Perhaps it's good for them, but we aren't all the same, and I can get why you wouldnt want that every year.

Reminds me of the Kath and Kim episode where they all go away together. Bret wanted Kim to himself, and he ends up getting corralled by mother-in-law.

Honestly it sounds like you didnt feel like you were part of their family and the kids did so you felt like they were pulling you apart.

We don’t know enough though to say whether they were being weird or whether you’re being dramatic.

I think people and families are different and have different norms and values.
I dont think YABU to say your ex husband/family did not suit you .
i don't think close extended families are wrong if they suit you.
I hope you are happy now and have relationships around you that you are comfortable with.
Your kids when they mature and grow up will form their own opinion of what is reasonable.

It’s very normal for families to holiday together

I know the type of man and family you are talking about. I saw a friend go through the same and he’s also an ex. Personally for me, people who have these enmeshed type of families - I just would never have dated.

I'd have gone mad if my husband said I couldn't call my mum whenever I want. Having a close relationship with your family gives you more chance of happy a good, balanced, romantic relationship-an ex of mine who didn't was clingy, expecting to be the only person in my life most of the time and jealous when I saw family and friends, and he wouldn't try to get close to them. It's good to have a decent relationship with your family and to spend time with them, especially for the kids. People who do are more likely to be happy, and have a good marriage, but worse case, if they divorce, they're more likely to have support, particularly important for the kids.

Based on the limited info you sounded jealous of his family and their close relationship. Feel like you lose your children when they come around? Of course when family is visiting you won’t be the center of attention for your kids - that’s a good thing! They are spending time with their fathers family who they don’t see as often as you.

You’re divorced now so who cares? Right or wrong you left and now don’t have to concern yourself with them.

Lots of stuff I recognise on this thread, the addictions, the enmeshed family where some want boundaries and have to fight to get them, getting corralled into doing things, even the religious stuff.

Your poor children … you escaped an emotionally abusive man and his intensely overbearing family, but your escape came at the cost of leaving your young children to try to defend themselves - something you couldn’t even do as an adult. They have no one protecting them.

I think your approach of not asking them how things are when they re with the in laws is borderline cowardly. Who do the kids have to talk to about these problems if you don’t show a strong interest ? To them, it might look like you are weak; you don’t care; or they aren’t encouraged to talk about their feelings. It’s not a good approach in my opinion.

OMG OP I've just come back from holiday with my in-laws and honestly this resonated. They were a nightmare💀Never going on holiday with them again!!!

It sounds incredibly similar to my in laws dynamic - it’s not about how big the family is (my family is bigger) or how much you love families (I do) it’s about unhealthy relationships, unhealthy dynamic between the family roles. I got a lot of peace from therapy, and you can explore the concepts online - “enmeshment”, “enmeshed families” “emotionally immature parents” “golden child & scapegoats”. From the outside families can look close, loving - but boundaries are overstepped, individual needs are disregarded, real meaningful connection doesn’t matter - it’s about performing your role that keeps the family dynamic going.
if you haven’t been in the situation it’s very hard to imagine, because often it means family expecting you to suppress your needs & wants to protect another persons preferences. It’s manipulative - guilt trips etc. My in laws look and appear lovely, friendly and supporting but it all has strings attached, tight roles and my MIL coming first - to the point when I was seriously ill, she was offended and they pushed me to put her first! From that point, I realised how deep it went & never change & went low contact. I am honest with my children in age appropriate ways about the differences in values.
Anyway - if this resonates, do your research, give yourself peace of mind. Your gut instinct is powerfully showing you - it didn’t feel right, ur wasn’t healthy for you and you acted on it. Going over it now could be the dissonance between how you see families in general and how this specific family act.

Gosh no, not jealous at all. Just that my ex’s loyalty was to his mum, and never to me. And I went along with it for many years until I found myself incredibly lonely.

i hear you, and it’s very hard to navigate. They know I am there to vent to and a safe person to do this with, and they spontaneously tell me all sorts of things. They are young so I try not to ask leading questions. Also very hard. I will be mindful of not being cowardly though.