Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

What you you experienced was a form of trauma. Your child nearly died and so did you. And he would have allowed that to happen. As we often say on here whether or not it’s intentional or not (I imagine it wasn’t intentional) the feeling/impact on you is still the same. It’s also known as medical betrayal. At your most frightened and vulnerable you hope those closest to you would recognise your fear and help you. But they don’t. And it’s tragic because we stayed up until we understood just how limited they are. You only find the capacity of a relationship in these acute moments, loss, serious illness etc. and to have them move away from you instead of towards you, or be indifferent or gas light you into thinking everything is ok… well of course you still feel angry because it’s devastating. It’s basic human decency to help someone seriously ill. I won’t forget mine in a hurry either. It’s a painful experience to be so let down by someone you trusted with everything. I’m sorry you had to go through that and I’m so glad you and your son both came through it and you have a partner who is completely different now. You have so much to live for now ❤️

The impact is far fetched and devastating. The gaslighting is contagious because you start as I have to gaslight yourself into thinking you are just too much. It is a cycle I permanently live in. Intent makes no difference it just means it’s not deliberate. But people still go to jail for a long time if they kill without intent, it’s still devastating.

I think back about my ex who claimed after daughter was diagnosed with ADHD that he thinks he has it (I was actually diagnosed and have never hurt anyone but myself….anyway..) let’s say he does also. When he was “dysregulated” he was horrible, he would say the most unbelievably horrible things, to me, to anyone. He would throw stuff, not at me but in front of me. He would control money, hiding away in a safe because my spending upset him, I never brought anything. The more the relationship went on the more controlling he got because the more dysregulated he got. I can see this through the eyes of unregulated ADHD now in a way, impulsive and controlling, but it destroyed me. He never seemed to enjoy it, he hated himself in a way but ultimately I was the cause of his impulsiveness because it was my actions causing it. He behaved like this to anyone, it was not directed at me. Before me he was addicted to drugs and drink (what a catch but I was a fixer back then and I didn’t know the extent) also turned out he used to self harm. I’m sure he and emotional issues but the scaffolding he required of me literally destroyed me, I couldn’t do a single thing right.

He moved on to someone else who turns out to be ADHD and they explode at each other and get over it, not like me.

What upsets me the most is that he tells our daughter I just wasn’t strong enough to handle him. He is correct in one sense because I’m quite delicate and don’t do well with all the hate in the world. It’s like I looked into the devils pit during my relationship with him and it really did destroy me. Apparently his partner is stronger than me and knows how to handle him. I really don’t think he is teaching our child very good advice. People should be protected within relationships, you are supposed to protect that persons heart and soul. His darkness left a mark on me that I can never unsee.

@Marshmallowkiss i hope you’re feeling a bit better!

I feel both can be true

You might not have been ‘strong enough’, read very good at establishing boundaries, so he took advantage. I was too with dh, which I think is why finally having some boundaries helped so much.

AND people should protect, care and love their loved ones.

Fwiw for a long time, I believed that if I loved my partner and they loved me back, there was no need for boundaries because theyd just correct their behaviour just from seeing me upset. I dint believe that anymore.
I think you can deeply love your partner and yet still need your partner to lay down boundaries and red lines. The reality is that most people take the easiest path and if the person on the other side never says No then that’s still the easiest path.

I put down boundaries but he walked all over them, he was never intending on that’s why eventually I left him. Which was twisted into some complete lie.

I feel 10 % better, Covid test was negative. Little one has slight fever and pooping mucus! 🤢 just great!!!!!

He picked me because I was apparently his water to his fire, his English rose, reminded him of his mum who was guess what abused till she left his dad!!!! It was never destined to work!

Also to make a point it’s not a women’s job to be strong enough to manage a the temper of a grown man. That was not the role I signed up to but was forced upon me. I am soft and gentle and that isn’t going to change for any angry man. I’m still all of these things.

I agree there.
im sorry. I think what I was trying to say was confusing and just doesn’t apply to someone who is throwing things at/towards you, was controlling etc…

I don’t know what’s going on with some men.
A good friend of mine was married to an arsehole who hit her. I mean he hit her when she was pg and she ended up miscarrying because of it. She left thank god.
Yet when he remarried, he stopped being violent 🙄🙄. Why he isn’t with his new wife but felt he could with my friend is a good question…..

Having said that, I feel your ex is rewriting history re ‘his water to his fire’ (what a lot of bollocks), trying to make you responsible.

Also, I want to say you DID put strong boundaries by leaving him. You prove then that you’re strong too, not just soft and gentle. You’re all of it.

@SpecialMangeTout3 I think being someone’s support has to be a joint thing that’s decided together. I think my ex has never learnt how to take accountability. It became a pattern that I eventually noticed that he blamed anyone and anything. He was always squeaky clean when he was actually very dirty. One of the final moments was being fired for some of his behaviour and blaming the other person and I did not agree with his story because he was genuinely wrong. I just couldn’t keep backing him up and enabling his behaviour. His partner now is much more like him. He used to laugh at my morals and call me superior (which I’m not) being ND I just have a strong sense of fairness and I couldn’t agree with him, even though I ended up relying on him financially and I needed him at that point. The expensive holidays and all the rest wasn’t enough for me to go against what I felt. He absolutely hates me now, HATES me. He tries his best to dirty my name with our daughter but there isn’t anything that is sticking because she knows who her mum is.

Yes 'she wasn't strong enough' is a shitty way to put it. Maybe in those situations the man was abusive, maybe the couple were just profoundly unsuited to one another, but it's not a personal fault not to put up with or be able to respond positively to certain behaviours.

I remember he used to say that you got from him exactly how you treated him. So if you basically did as he wanted you were ok but if you didn’t then you’d get what you’d asked for. After doing some reading it felt like splitting. I was once adored by him and the moment I disagreed I was hated. There were never any discussions only arguments and I had to talk extremely tentatively (which is not always possible). I wondered if it could be extreme RSD, but projected outwards. He was extremely insecure even though he acts like a massive big head. I’m glad he is gone tbh, although I still can’t converse with the bugger over shared daughter. Every single
msg is filtered through victim then he gets nasty and childish. It’s very boring.

Back home from holiday- was lovely, DH was on good form, he didn't take any meds and he also didn't have any massive anxiety/anger about my driving abroad (which I think is fine, thanks very much). I think it does help that I'm familiar with the area and that this time we were in a very similar sized car to ours so it was much easier to road position unlike times we've had a bigger cars with a much higher driving position. He's also, hopefully, starting to trust me more... but I think for everyone's sanity for future holidays we should try to hire as small a car as we can get away with!

His insistence on going to the gym most days was a bit annoying as he's not capable of going early so that rather cut the day in half. For future visits, I think I will ask him to bear in mind that if others want to have full days out, that means cutting out the gym, or at least trying to go before 9am.

So the relationship improves and the experience and days improves the less they have to consider you? Hmmmmm great! Im
not convinced anymore that it’s healthy and fulfilling to live this way. I actually would like to be considered and it not to cause a massive issue.

Sorry, not sure what aspect you are referring to @Marshmallowkiss - I don't see or experience it that way. There were no massive issues about considering my feelings?

Apols if you're referring to another post!

I just meant that for things to be ok absolutely everything is reliant on everything going a certain way for him. The size car, your driving, this that. Then it could have gone south simply by asking that he consider how something he is doing is impacting everyone else. At any point it could go wrong. Can you relax and just be you? I’m just asking because I’d be on edge it could be ruined at any point and I’d be on alert. But that’s me.

It's not absolutely everything though - he'd just developed an unnecessary anxiety and fussiness about my driving abroad but he seems to be overcoming it. I didn't feel on edge about it this year at all, though I have at times on past holidays. I was just noting that I drive more confidently on the right in a smaller car after a few years of always having bigger cars on holiday. Hopefully this will go the way of his anxiety about airports and getting through security and on the plane and off the plane which he used to be in a big stressed hurry about but has learned to stop these days.

Ah ok. It’s more the point you said that you hadn’t told him that his gyming was effecting your days out everyday and why it wasn’t just something you could say to him. I mean any other person would probably take their family into account and not disrupt every day with what they want. A discussion could take place where everyone has an equal say without any fear of backlash. Asking him to bear in mind his family is something he should be doing as it’s a family holiday. Just wondered why you hadn’t told him? Out of fear he’d react badly and you wanted to keep the peace.

I read this quote the other day which felt so real….
“When you make yourself small, when you diminish your presence, your needs, or your voice to avoid making waves or to fit into the spaces someone else creates for you, you don't actually win their genuine consideration. Instead, you only end up abandoning your real self.”

Oh I did confront him one day when it annoyed me that he hadn't left time to do much with the rest of the day. I didn't mind the day before as we'd just had two very busy days and I wanted it to be quiet, but I wanted to do more on the next day as I knew a friend was visiting the day after so, although that would be lovely, it would mean we weren't likely to get far from the house that day either.

But I want to be clearer upfront in future that if he wants to go to the gym most days, that means we are likely to end up doing the same local things rather than having time to explore other stuff - we didn't get to do some things he wanted to do while we were there either because of the going to the gym.

Tonight he got in a strop about DS not being able to do English writing again and I think I may have found a way to deal with it more effectively than getting in an argument. When he gets like this he suggests over the top punishments (that would obviously not help DS miraculously be able to di writing tasks) and so I called his bluff and said quite calmly and decisively 'OK, I'll go and tell him [over the top punishment]' and DH then said 'No, no don't do that, just get him to do some writing', and I did. It didn't quite defuse his upset about it but I think just confronting him with the outlandish things he suggests when he gets dysregulated means he steps back from it at least a little.

I find the way they experience the world in such a high stakes and high conflict way very difficult. My ADHD daughter is the same, can’t have any conversation with her that she doesn’t instantly take as argument. I keep telling her that I’m not attacking her, she simply needs to “get dressed”. It must be so awful experiencing the world like this day in day out like this. I don’t experience the world like this and it’s draining getting drawn into arguments constantly. Communicating is bloody impossible. There is a club you go to, this outfit is required, at some point said outfit needs to go on your body!!!!!!! Arghhhhhh

It's not constant but what's difficult is that it's unpredictable. If he's tired or stressed or ill that's a risk factor, but other times it comes out of the blue, sometimes for something totally random. Like once, I came home having bought something really minor, can't even remember what - it was something really insignificant like a can opener - and he flew off the handle about me buying a new one without asking him 😐I mean, something you'd never imagine you'd have to seek someone's permission to get.

There's also definite rejection sensitivity going on - I saw someone, maybe on this thread, describing how RS makes the most carefully-put gentle criticism into a vicious personal attack as far as the recipient is concerned, and that happens quite a lot with him. Again, not every time but not predictable how he'll react.

He's becoming more conscious of these attacks, which doesn't necessarily stop them, but he is pulling back and apologising more quickly.

It is hard. We are not responsible for the way someone is wired to experience the world yet we become that. I can accommodate and accommodate but something always comes up. My daughter hates the fact that I try and talk to her about her ADHD and how others experience her. She hates this. At the end of the day people do experience her, they walk away from her because in relationships because she is extremely reactive and she hurts others. She perceives so much that is just not there. Even with me, it’s a very volatile and one way relationship. I want to help her so that she can learn and have better relationships but I don’t know how this will play out. It’s very sad to see for her because I know she genuinely experiences the world this way but I also know it’s not actually true (in the sense it’s completely over exaggerated). She is 10, I know she will grow. Currently she is unable to listen to another persons experience without getting even more horrible and defensive.

And I’ve got to get her back to school today….god give me strength. If there is a god I’d like to know what he’s playing at. Giving me extremely high maintenance children and then making me weak ill and absolutely exhausted!!!!

Ive never explained to dc2 how other people are experiencing some of his behaviours.
I’ve always given him explanations on how the workd works, how people react, what they understand. So more of a general explanation about how people think and react than about him iyswim

I didn’t think in terms of RS then but mainly I wanted to avoid him to feel he was to blame or to feel bad about himself.

I mean let’s take Somethimg that has little impact on others, like he is picking at skin as a stim. Telling him to stop, telling him off, making him feel bad about it (like he currently picking at his face so it’s highly visible on the top of being painful) is not going to stop him from stimming iyswim. But it might make him feel very self conscious, feeling bad about himself etc…

A friend of mine was telling me she is very worried about her dd due to tye very high level of suicide in female autistic teen.
So is the other friend who realised her ds is in the spectrum when he started to talk about suicide…..
I have to say, this has been on my mind too.

Same with dh. Not that I think he is suicidal. But I feel there is a need to balance putting boundaries in place, reminding that he has to take me into account etc…. and not being hurtful when you can avoid it.