does fakeness get you further in life

[stephq]

Genuine question:
I really struggle with this!
I follow the rule if u cant say anything nice dont say anything at all. Because of this if i dont like someone rather than be mean and hurtful or fake i tend to avoid them.
I have a limited number of good friends. Who while are few in number i could trust with my life.
Yet i always feel a bit down left out, judged, or just distanced by the others around me and my family.
I watch the people around us be fake and nice each other yet gossip and bitch behind eachothers backs. These people are forever going out together socializing in big groups etc. because i cant be fake i end up left out. Like ppl think im creating problems and divided when im just trying to be honest rather than two faced

Is it better to be fake and just go along with ppl let stuff go over your head and just moan behind their backs.
Or is it better to avoid ppl you dont have much time for!? So u dont behave in a two faced manner!?

good question, I really dont know the answer.....a lot of people in better jobs than me are shit, but they sure talk a good game.....

then again, I suppose you have to like what you see in the mirror, at the end of the day

I have always wondered this. I know several very fake people, they seem to make friends easily, get on with people in work etc. But although I am friends with them, I never trust them or feel that is it "real". I try to tolerate people more and understand their point of view, as I know I can just become fed up of people I don't really like. I think a certain degree if fakeness is needed for politeness sake but it just isn't in my blood to be fake. Actually one "fake" friend said to me recently that she wished she could be like me, that I am down to earth and can never hide what I feel. Take from that what you will but at least I know I am genuine and that my friendships are as a result, more real.

You don't have to moan behind their back though.

Unfortunately at work, yes I am nice to people I don't like. I have to. I can't avoid clients or refuse clients based on a personal dislike. But I don't then talk about them behind their back.

In my private life I mainly avoid people I don't like. Not always possible when you are related to them. But I remain civil and polite and still don't talk about them behind their back.

If people are talking about others they could be motivated by a number
of factors, idle chat nothing better to do with themselves ( a bit sad),
envy, the people they socialise with, they may have fallen out and are
still trying to score points, plain nasty folk
Perhaps you are too busy with your own life ? Which is good.
Be true to thyself

As I've got older I have realised there are different relationships with different people and all have their place.

You can go through life only wanting close friends. If you do then your friendship group is limited and you can either complain everyone else is fake, or take the same attitude others do.

Others have the ability to take acquaintances for what they are and just enjoy the here and now. This doesn't not make them fake. They can enjoy a night out with workmates knowing full well if they didn't work together they'd never see them again. Doesn't make it fake, just an evening of fun without lifelong friendships who share what they are prepared to about themselves without over-investing.

Personally I fall into the handful of close friends group and am not into being a social bee, however I don't believe those that do are wrong or fake.

Those that want to bitch aren't nice people and we may think that because they are very social they are very popular and do well, however they will lack the handful of close friends who would do anything for them. It's superficial.

When I came to this country 10 years ago I was amazed how friendly and nice everyone was. It is nice when people are nice to you You see, in my culture such pleasantness to a stranger is unheard of.
To answer your question i think it all about your morals. If you're happy to listen to others bitch and not participate in the conversation then go along. You will find out a lot of interesting info
If you can't stand listening to people talk shit about someone they just were nice to then keep your distance.
I presume it's not just you who see these people for what they are. Do you want to be associated with them?

That's interesting, Tatiana. When I lived in Russia I was impressed by how non-fake people were. Any friendliness was genuine. And the friendships I made there have lasted. Whereas in England, it was very hard to make friends because people have a mask on all the time ( perhaps it was just the part of Surrey where I lived, though).

I try to be real in friendships/love and reserve any fakery for my professional life. My job involves talking to and, yes, flattering a lot of people, so there are times when I feel a bit embarrassed at the crap that comes out of my mouth.

Gosh I think it does but I don't know how they live with it.
My out laws are fake. Tell me all the info about each other and the next thing you know they're best pals, or its a face in front of people. I would sit and smile before as I'm not from the same area as them all so I am the outsider looking in but now I simply cannot carry on like this e.g. going to weddings like evrurhings okay. It's not (they never visit DC so I don't feel like I should attend their family gatherings anymore. I grit my teeth through it before kids).

Your post sounds like my life. I have a handful of friends from home but when I moved and tried to make new ones for a long time everyone seemed okay until it came round to me that I was the talk whereas they were individually talking about each other to me. They carry on to talk to each other through their fakeness whilst I removed myself from them. It seems like a popularity thing with them though.

At work I don't experience it that much but I can sniff fakeness from a mile away. I don't get involved in anything but keeping it work based so it doesn't need to bother me there.

because i cant be fake i end up left out. Like ppl think im creating problems and divided when im just trying to be honest rather than two faced

I have to say that I probably wouldn't be keen on socialising with someone who thought I was fake and two-faced. Perhaps there could be other reasons you're not invited.

You have very black and white thinking. People are either on your good list or bad list. If they are on your bad list then you can't be nice to them. If you were nice to them that would be "fake". That's an awfully extreme world view.

I have lots of acquaintances that I will never be close friends with. There are things about them that mean we just don't click. I would still have drink with them and a laugh and a chat as much as I could if they were at the same social event as me. I don't see that as fake at all.

I would not miss a social event because some of the people there are not people I would become best friends with. I'd have to seriously and actively dislike someone before I'd start avoiding social events they'd be at.

Why did you post? Are you upset at being left out?

No, not really upset about being left out. Mote baffled by watching the way people behave.
Im notas black and white as the post read. Of course i too have loads of aquantences who id just have pleasantries with but wouldnt really spend time with or ever go any deeper. At work i completely manage to get on with everyone, and i dont bitch behind their backs.
I just see alot of people around me calling people, critizing their lives,their choices etc even saying they dont like them then two mins later planning nights out with them and then thanking them for the brilliant night theyve just had. Its not so much im not invited. I could go along its more i choose not to cos the way they behave makes me uncomfortable and just a bit miffed. I dont like being amongst ppl who i feel will just gossip or backstab anything i may or may not say. And i know two
Mins after thanking said person for the amazing time theyve had they'll be ripping the night to shreads!
It just winds me up. I guess your right i do choose to stay out of it cos my morals tell me to avoid that kind of thing. But when its your family circles it makes it very awkward. And i always seem to feel left out. I know thats a bit odd

Oh and it also winds me up that people who behave in this bitchy fake way seem to have loads more friends and a much fuller social life. I know they arent real friends but its still frustrating watching it

I know what you mean OP. It's one reason why I find the school pick-up difficult, everyone can just chat so easily and I find it very hard to be "fake". I realise they're not necessarily being fake in a horrible way (though some do) but if I try it I feel uncomfortable, so I tend to opt out. Like you I have a few real, long-term friends. I have been told I'm blunt and like a PP I've been told it's great that I'm so "what you see is what you get" and don't hide what I feel. I have to admit I was surprised at the time that that was seen as so remarkable!

But people do do "fake" as a normal way of being, it's how most people rub along. I think for a lot of people, having someone to chat to and not being left out is very important, so they do the "fake" thing, then out of that deeper friendships can develop too.

So would it be better all round if i look at this like its my problem. Like i need to accept the falseness rather than let it wind me up so much.
Would it be better if i was nice to these ppl knowing they'll probably go to eachother and gossip about how fake that is of me too!?
Do you think if i was fakely nice to these people we could develop a better relationship!?!?
I literally dont know how to deal with people like this but they are in my life day in day out

There's a difference between being fake and going out of your way to be nice though. I consider myself very friendly and open, I try to make people feel good about themselves if I can and believe that we can find some kind of connection with most people around us if we look for it. Are you sure you aren't isolating yourself by avoiding people instead of trying to find the positive in them? Not everyone needs to be your best friend but it's very possible to have lots of friendly acquaintances and to be on nodding terms with most.

My SIL is very self isolating, I think it's a lifetimes habit. It's a real shame as it means that she can come across as very judgemental of other people which then perpetuates this cycle of isolation.

Yeah i think that is what im doing and i think that is how i come across because of it. But i find it very difficult to see the positives in people who are happy to sit and analyse, infact completely rip apart other peoples lives then two minites later be over the top nice to their face.. Cos theu get some kind of social gain behaving like that. So for me making an effort to try and see the good in these people would be very difficult and i would feel very fake doing it. And i dont know if j could sit and listen to such conversations. Talking about people just isnt my thing

Yes. There is an element to fakeness if you want to appear to have lots of friends and be a social butterfly.

But I know what type of friendship I'd chose and would persevere.

OP I hear what you are saying. Please don't think I'm suggesting you partake in those types of conversations. I worry that you potentially look judgemental to others tho, I know my SIL does at times. perhaps try to sway conversations towards neutral topics or change the subject entirely to ask about things you know are important to them such as children/pets/holidays/hobbies. I do genuinely believe most people have a lot of positive traits and it's easy to just view one side of them if that's all you've been exposed to. Good luck

OP are you me?

I could have written your post word for word.

I'm currently watching two mutual friends being all over the top lovey with each other on social media (and they do it at gatherings as well) when behind each other's backs they are crying and moaning about each other and are clearly not at all happy with each other and everyone knows it.

This seems to happen all the time and the people who act like that seem to be the most popular ones, and I just don't get it. I'm kind and pleasant but I don't do all this over the top fake loveyness, and if I have a problem with someone I have ignore it or talk to them about it.

But this fakeness seems to be the way to be socially popular and my more muted pleasantness seems to be interpreted as coldness or being stand-offish. I really don't get it.

Deathstare! That is exactly what its like

Fakeness is just another word for "manners", no?
The art is making the fakeness seem sincere.

Some people are warm because they genuinely care (or very good fakers).
Some people are warm because they think it's expected (manners).

I totally get you OP and I have the same at work; one person in particular is what my friend calls an 'information gatherer' She will talk to anybody in a faux, oh so concerned way, wheedles private information out of them and stores it. She then gossips to others about them, usually negatively although sometimes she's just relaying the info without judgement.
She is totally indiscreet and having worked with her for 2 years, I know what I'm talking about!

She was always wanting to know what I'd been upto on my days off. Was never satisfied with the non committal answers I gave, was constantly asking further leading questions. It was like because I didn't offer the info she'd try and draw it out of me.

Eventually I just gave one word answers and stopped associating with her apart from work stuff - pretty difficult when you share an office!

She is so fake though that it makes me scream. People who don't know her well think she's lovely and I think hmmm, if only you knew what I know about you because she's shared a confidence...

I have very little time for her now.

To be true to yourself is the way to go in my book. I just can't do the fakeness either, just doesn't sit well. What's the point, it's not real, stick with your real friends, how many do you need I'd rather be on my own, seriously.

I know exactly what you mean op. I worked in an environment with people like this once and it was awful. I do have quite black and white thinking but do not feel as if this is a problem for me.

It's a relief not to have to put up with bullshit like this anymore. I do however have quite a lot of friends and have at least one if not two social things per week though they are low key such as a walk or cuppa at each other houses, lunch out. I just have a fussy filter these days.

My sister and I are both like thIs we think it's hypocritical to break bread with anyone we don't like. When her son in law visits she really struggles as she cannot st,and him, he had an affair but remains married to my niece, my sisters DD.

DH and I turned down a wedding invite when his cousin married as we don't like him. Obviously we are polite enough not to tell anyone in RL why we didn't attend and DH whole family were going.

The majority of people know what these people are like yet they all allow it to go on. They all publicly love eachother. Yet all i ever hear is the behind closed doors he said she said.
Like an example. I witnessed a conversation where sil ripped to shreads an outfit a mutual friend was wearing for a night out. Yet that night on social media she posted something along the lines of. 'Omg you looked amazing tonight. Absolutly loved that dress thanks for a fab night lovely!' And i can well imagine all night they were just all over eachother.
And i just read it and think WTF. Why do they go out their way to be over the top nice when they dont like eachother and are over the top horrible about the same people
But thats how ur expected to behave to get along amongst them. I cant be like that