does fakeness get you further in life

[stephq]

Genuine question:
I really struggle with this!
I follow the rule if u cant say anything nice dont say anything at all. Because of this if i dont like someone rather than be mean and hurtful or fake i tend to avoid them.
I have a limited number of good friends. Who while are few in number i could trust with my life.
Yet i always feel a bit down left out, judged, or just distanced by the others around me and my family.
I watch the people around us be fake and nice each other yet gossip and bitch behind eachothers backs. These people are forever going out together socializing in big groups etc. because i cant be fake i end up left out. Like ppl think im creating problems and divided when im just trying to be honest rather than two faced

Is it better to be fake and just go along with ppl let stuff go over your head and just moan behind their backs.
Or is it better to avoid ppl you dont have much time for!? So u dont behave in a two faced manner!?

[Horsemad]

Me neither! If I have nothing nice to say then I say nothing At least people who genuinely know me will know if I compliment them I am being honest!

[DeathStare]

stephq - I'm glad it's not just me. The difficulty I find is that it is hard to make new friends because I just don't get that dynamic and it's very hard to work out who the people are who don't want that dynamic.

needanewjob - I can't speak for the OP, but in my case I feel I am nice. I'm always the person to offer lifts, to help with the food/clearing up at parties, to pick up people's kids from school when mum is sick, etc. But I don't do all the big loveyness (and then moaning about the same person an hour later). And for some reason the big loveyness, even when it is fake, seems to make people more popular than small acts of genuine kindness.

I should add that I'm probably using popular in the wrong sense. I just see these people who do the fakery meeting up and having fun (or seeming to) and being chased by each other. Whereas those of us who are more low-key but genuine aren't often included.

[pattysgotastropon]

I think there is some form of social bonding involved in having a moan about people behind their back and often people don't actually think about (and maybe don't mean) what they are saying. I tend not get sucked into these discussions but occasionally at work someone will come to my office and have a bitch about another colleague and I find myself joining in, not because I necessarily dislike said colleague but because I am trying to find common ground with the moaner. When I realise I'm doing it I stop immediately and try to put a positive spin on the discussion but I sometimes think others may not be aware of what they're doing.

[stephq]

Like manners is just being polite. Im never nasty or hurtful to anyone. I can get along with them all at face value but alot of it is just keeping convo to a minimal, walking away when the bitching starts, and avoiding spending any more time than necessary with them so i never get close enough to be dragged into the bitching or bitched about myself. I can get by with them but i wont go out my way to say something so over the top just to gain socially from it when i dont believe a word of it. And yet somehow by not being nasty and judgemental. I look like the most judgemental and up myself person there. I guess everyone likes to have alot of attention and love thrown at them and they probably arent bothered jow rea it is so long as they look popular and brilliant to an outsider

[LazySusan11]

I can't do fake either op, I have a couple of people I regarded as friends until I heard them talking about another friend behind their back yet when they see her it's all 'Oh Hi, you look amazing..so good to see you' etc etc

I'm afraid I ditched them without an explanation just wasn't worth going into it with them as to them is perfectly acceptable.

I'm known for my honesty it's not always been well received, but if you ask I'll not lie! Nowadays I have a very small group of friends not all the same group and life is much happier all round. My life is too short to get caught up in a group of flaky people for the sake of appearing more popular or getting ahead.

[colleysmill]

It's an interesting question. I've found that in certain circumstances yes people who fake it make it.

Years ago I did a lot of amateur dramatics and it was very much like this. To get the good parts you had to smooze the right people (whilst also being talented) I don't do it now but I do play music and its similar although not on the same scale. Being good isn't enough you have to have the confidence and the charm to go with it - fake or not.

[stephq]

Lazysusan.
This is it. Id love to just walk away from the lot of them and be happy with the ones i know would only ever say behind my back what they would to my face. But these social circles are interlaced with mine and oh's family. They arent people we will ever be able to avoid. So every birthday,xmas,celebration we are all thrown together and they all sit in a big click and im left feeing a bit of an outsider thinking how can they all be so fake! i totally get it isnt their intention to push me out and that its more ive done that myself. But you do end up looking like the one with the problem just cos ur morals are higher. If thats even a fair thing to say!?
I dont feel confortable among them now either. Like i see how they judge everyone so i dontlet myself go. Among my own friends im life and soul of party. But these im just quiet and reserved

[lljkk]

I'm a real glass half full person & I think there are ways to join in with a positive tone without being fake. The other day someone was showing off a piece of art they had produced: I kept my head down because i thought it was hideous. But I could have mustered a "I like this part" statement quite sincerely, if forced to. :)

People who are nice to face & bitch behind their back: don't we all hate that?!

[stephq]

Yes and in that circumstance i would do the same. But these people would go 'omg your so talented. That pictures amazing. U should auction it i bet it would sell for more!' Blah blah and then two minutes later to someone else theyd be laughing about how hideous it was! It just annoys me that these people are never seen for who they really are!

[stephq]

Like it genuinley seems these bitchy sneaky people go further in life. Hence my initial question

[LazySusan11]

Are they family members or work acquaintances? Is there anyone at these gatherings that are similar to you?

Would you be able to call them out if they were being rude about someone?

Fil is an alcoholic, some time ago he caused an almighty family row by getting shitfaced at an important occasion and being incredibly rude to the hosts swearing calling them names etc. (There was no way to avoid inviting him) The next day everyone else including his family members tiptoed around him and brushed it under the carpet, he asked what was so wrong with having 'fun' and getting drunk. Having listened to everyone the previous evening say awful things about him and his behaviour I was that no one came out and told him. Except of course me.

My FIL hasn't spoken to me in 3 years, I avoid any gathering he's at so's not to cause any awkwardness for the others. I could've kept the peace and said nothing unfortunately that's not really me. He asked so I couldn't lie!

Sometimes it's just as bad to be honest as it is fake it seems!

[VulcanWoman]

It's like these athletes that win gold medals but have cheated. If you're aren't being real you're just cheating and compromising your integrity.

[bluerequired]

I have a friend who makes her life sound better than what it is. People love her and has lots of friends. I know the truth because am the one she comes to for personal issues.

Fake it till you make it seems to be her mantra. It works for her. I just can't do it. You have to remember all the lies you tell people.

When meeting some of her other friends I get briefed on what they have been told. From what my boyfriends were like, to where I buy my cloths. What he does for a living.

[Floatinglight]

We may dislike a few things about anyone but not necessarily give up social life for those reasons alone. We went to a friend's house, had good fun but she has hard floors throughout with no rug underfoot. It was great to catchup but was a bit uncomfortable with cold hard floor. Must have thanked her about inviting us over the top and told nice things to her. We did drop about cold floor after we left to each other. Not a nice thing to do. But we would go again if invited. You could call it fake I guess.

[stephq]

I appreciate and get everyones views. Its down to interpretation of what fake is. I dont see it as fake to be pleasant, but i do see it as fake to not have nice anything to say about someone behind their back yet express over the top love for them to their face. I can only guess they do this to et something from it, popularity, love back? Yes everyone can tell little white lies to keep peace or make someone feel good. But this is on a daily basis with the same people. And the people doing it seem to be the happiest with the most friends recieving more love from everyone than anyone else!
In my situation its those who are incredibly two faced that never get caught out for it. Everyone seems to think they are genuine. Or thats my interpretation anyway. Maybe they are using eachother and its happening both ways!? I dunno!

Just sometimes i get overwhelmed by it. And start to think id be better off just telling everyone i love them all the time. Regardless of how i feel!

[Floatinglight]

We definitely have nice things to say too. It may depend on your emotional reaction too. I'm equally aware that if I'm hosting, there will be shortcomings and I don't mind them talking about it when they leave. Obviously I'm assuming it is casual things and not complete assassination. There is a fine line to criticism that we all set for ourselves. I do like having company but don't expect others to not say anything about me behind my back 100% of the time. You seem to be taking negative comments to the extreme. For me, I could be 10 faced, depending on the level of comfort and friendship history. I do like social company and change in people who I hangout with so will accept the imperfections on both sides. You only know after a while who are worth your time. I know we won't be friends in RL but I do genuinely like having company.

[Horsemad]

The work colleague I referred to in my post is incredibly needy imo. She just HAS to be the most popular person, ingratiating herself with all colleagues and in particular the (female) boss. I'm a pretty good judge of character and now just have a little laugh to myself, whilst watching the show

Added to that, she calls everyone 'hun' so there's no hope for her really!

[DeathStare]

stephq We share a definition of "fake"!

The example I cited before - I cannot believe for a minute that the two "friends" don't know what the other has said about them behind their back - literally everyone knows (I'm only tangentially connected and even I know!) And they never see each other privately or communicate privately any more but at parties/social events and on social media it's all big over the top fakery of how much they love each other. And it's not just them - I see it in all sorts of people. It just baffles me. And in the middle of it I have no idea how I'm supposed to act because this fakery is seen as wonderful and low-key helpful pleasantness is seen as coldness.

[Kennington]

I much prefer people to be friendly to me and moan behind my back - I don't get to hear it.
Saying what you think of everyone is exhausting. Just smile and be nice and don't spend time with people you aren't keen on. It is that simple.
In the end we will all be dead in the next 50 or so years and no one will care about my petty thoughts or differences with someone as inconsequential as me.
Fake people are easier to deal with. Who wants to be told the truth about themselves? Not me!

[Horsemad]

Hmm, easier said than done Kennington!

[DeathStare]

Kennington I think there's a difference between being pleasant and friendly and being fake. I don't think anyone was suggesting that everyone should be completely up front and honest about everything. In my mind at least there's a difference between being pleasant and sociable and (for example) spending hours behind someone's back saying how you hate them and then running up to them at a party to declare how much you love them and how they are the most wonderful/beautiful/amazing person there.

[brodchengretchen]

It seems to me that for some people the fakeness is real, in the sense that they just invent themselves to suit their objectives. Maybe they keep a portrait of themselves called 'the Truth' in the attic and it looks increasingly dodgy?

[CherryPicking]

I find it quite exhausting behaving this way.

[stephq]

I wish it was that simple kennington!

[ivykaty44]

I think there is a between going out in a big group and possibly not caring for a couple of people - to bitching about others.

If You go out in a group and don't join in any back stabbing/ bitching and no one knows you don't like certain people it's then not wrong.

You can't like everyone but you can deal with it pleasantly