does fakeness get you further in life

[stephq]

Genuine question:
I really struggle with this!
I follow the rule if u cant say anything nice dont say anything at all. Because of this if i dont like someone rather than be mean and hurtful or fake i tend to avoid them.
I have a limited number of good friends. Who while are few in number i could trust with my life.
Yet i always feel a bit down left out, judged, or just distanced by the others around me and my family.
I watch the people around us be fake and nice each other yet gossip and bitch behind eachothers backs. These people are forever going out together socializing in big groups etc. because i cant be fake i end up left out. Like ppl think im creating problems and divided when im just trying to be honest rather than two faced

Is it better to be fake and just go along with ppl let stuff go over your head and just moan behind their backs.
Or is it better to avoid ppl you dont have much time for!? So u dont behave in a two faced manner!?

Agree ivykatie. Unfortunatly these people are extreme in their behaviour. And i am at a loss as to how to deal with them

Do you see the irony in your posts, OP?

I think that it really is necessary to change how we behave when we find ourselves in different situations, and it just depends what you consider core to your sense of self, and where you are prepared to compromise.

For example I have moved countries and cities many times and as a child I moved from an English private school to a Scottish state school. All of these moves demand subtle changes of behaviour in order to fit in, but none of them required a serious change to who I am.

At the moment I am moving from being a scientist to a primary school Mum, and the funniest thing I find is that neat hair is really critical in the primary school playground. People judge really heavily on how neat a person's hair is. That's okay though and having short hair is a change I can live with. :-)

No floatinglight?!

My sister and I are both like thIs we think it's hypocritical to break bread with anyone we don't like. When her son in law visits she really struggles as she cannot st,and him,

But she does? That's the point. If you think you can go through life avoiding everyone you don't like and never having to make concessions (like your sister does) it's going to pretty miserable and people will move away from you. I imagine if your sister refused to eat with her son in law, it would amuse problems between her and her Dd.

Op it's sounds like your problem isn't the being nice to someone's face, it's the bitching.

Quite honestly I have a relative (by marriage) that hates me. She has gone out of her way to be nasty to me and my kids. Really awful stuff. But when I see her I am civil. Mainly because it makes it easier for everyone else but also because it winds her up even more when I don't bite and it ends up with her looking more of a dickhead. Yes I am fake with her. But it doesn't benefit me at all not to be. But I don't talk about her behind her back.

And yes I do think people who are 'fake' get further. I try my best to be honest, but tactfully. At work they use me as the person who clears the shit in meetings. I am known for cutting through the waffle and getting to the heart of the matter. But manage to do it without pissing people off. Which involves some fakery 'I totally get what you are saying. I am here to support you and the team in achieving your goal' etc. What I want to say is 'cut the bullshit, what went wrong? Once I know that we can fix it'

I don't then come out of a meeting and say 'God Bob is such a dick'.

A tip for avoiding the bitching, is to politely remove yourself. It used to happen when I worked in a call centre. On breaks we would be having a cig and the team would slag someone off....as it started I always needed to make a call, or go to the loo, or desperately needed to speak to someone else who was out there about work. I didn't need to do any of the above, I just pretended. You can remove yourself from the conversation without being confrontational or judgmental.

Do you see the irony in your posts, OP?
No floatinglight?!

You are doing the bitching too. you hate it , yet you are here doing the exact thing even though it's not real life. That's the irony.

OP I don't think you're being hypocritical - but then I wouldn't because I seem to see the issue the same way that you do.

I think there is a big difference between asking for help understanding a form of behaviour and how to work with it (which is what you're doing) and bitching. I also think that there's a big difference between ducking something up publicly and mentioning them in another setting (like the cold floors a pp mentioned) and this fakery.

When I mention fakery I'm not talking about someone being civil and pleasant with someone they don't like, it's more dramatic than that.

With the two women I'm seeing it most with at the moment they run to each other at parties - big air kisses, big squeals "love you so much" , telling other people (in front of each other) "isn't she amazing", "isn't she wonderful", "I'm so lucky to have her as my friend". Same on social media. Then privately - but to anyone who will listen - absolutely ripping each other to shreds. Not little criticisms, real venom. And then next time they see each other or post on social media it's back to "isn't she just amazing?" And the cycle goes on and on

To me that's very different from having a bit of a whinge about someone privately or being pleasant to someone you don't like much.

Hmm.. Yeah im not taking about people
Politely getting by. Being nice to maintain relationships and create nice atmospheres rather than hositle ones etc Of course i agree thats a normal human way to be. And we cant like everyone and everyone has their faults. Alot of which can be overlooked if the heart is in the right place and both sides dont judge the other and accept they just arent meant to get along.
But my initial question was like deathstare says about extreme fakeness.
Voicing your complete hatred for someone yet showing them nothing but pure love. I could go into details and examples to explain how extreme this is. But i wont cos i dont think im bitching. Im asking for advise on how to get along with these people for the sale of everyone around us without making myself look fake or part of bitchyness but also without making myself seem distant or judgemental

Op isnt bitching about people she is generalising and that is the difference.
Bitching has to be done about people that are known and we don't know these people.

This thread is a question about dealing with the situation and whether we do it or how we manage it.

I have a 'friend' who I avoid quite a bit now as she is a total socialbutterfly but seems to have no loyalty, bitches and shares 'secrets' about friends. Cant be arsed with it, she grates on me. Unfortunatley we are part of the same friendship group and dcs at school together.