if you are going to be a SAHM or rely on partners income.. please please get married before agreeing to children.

[Marilynsbigsister]

I don't think I have ever seen a week like it on MN for women getting shafted by partners and father of their children. At least 4 or 5 threads on here at the moment from women left without homes and losing their way of life because their 'partners' have decided they want out. In the latest thread, the lady in question has been living together for 30yrs and will leave with only cm for two of their four children..(the others are over 18) . He has created a successful business while she has bought up a family. This is not recognised by the courts as they are not married.. Please please DO NOT have children with a man who doesn't respect you enough to marry, especially if you intend to stay home to raise baby or will only earn a part time wage and property is owned by partner... until the law is changed (not before time)

Er, it's up to the individual! Jeez

Do you know what - I'm not married, and have DC with my long-term partner. I don't want to be married. I'd really rather not be backed into that corner by being the only way to tie things together.

But about being reliant... You're completely right.

Things work for us at the moment because we earn roughly the same amount and both still work full-time. Neither of us has financially suffered through having children.

But he knows perfectly well that if I go down to anything less than 4 days a week if we have another DC, I will be pushing for marriage if I'm not happy with our other legal arrangements.

It costs a lot of make those legal arrangements too. I work in law and am fortunate that I was able to have someone very experienced help us make sure everything (cohab agreement, wills, POA etc) was as tightly tied as possible. And even those aren't 100% the same.

No one, woman or man, should become financially reliant on another person without ensuring they have the tightest legal protection available, which is still currently marriage.

It's up to the individual yes Miss fit. But I think many women don't recognise the risks they are taking with their future and old age when they become SAHM without marriage. It is a very risky path if you aren't going to maintain financial independence.

Oh god I hate this obsession on MN with getting married. You can be screwed either way. Getting married is not a sign of respect.

Oh dear god, plenty of women are able to protect themselves.... You only hear on MN of the ones needing 'help'

Yes. They protect themselves by remaining financially independent. How else MissFitt?

It's not about respect, its about the law - which recognises marriage over cohabiting.

It's not fair, it's not right, it's just the way it is. If you're giving up your financial independence to raise children (which is obviously fine) then it makes sense to protect yourself and your children in a legal contract - ie marriage.

It's a simple fact that at the moment under UK law, a husband owes spousal support to his wife when they separate, whereas a partner does not.

I don't get the obsession with being married either ("it just made us complete, like two halves of one person" etc) but it's an undeniable fact that a PARTNER with no income and no savings of their own is in a more vulnerable position if unmarried, should they separate.

It's a simple fact that at the moment under UK law, a husband owes spousal support to his wife when they separate, whereas a partner does not.

I don't get the obsession with being married either ("it just made us complete, like two halves of one person" etc) but it's an undeniable fact that a PARTNER with no income and no savings of their own is in a more vulnerable position if unmarried, should they separate.

The 'obsession' here for marriage, is that you have women (and men) coming on here saying woe is me, OH has buggered off and i have nothing - well marriage makes it harder for them to do that.

They seem to think that they should have all the same rights as those who are married, but dont want to be married.....

No but the Op suggests that marriage means the man respects the woman more than just cohabitation

You're so right op but of course this topic gets people so defensive

It could happen to any of us. Women who give up their careers to raise the children of men who haven't given them the security of marriage think it won't happen to them.

PLEASE if you're going to be financially dependant then get married. If you are hugely anti marriage that's fine but don't stay home and give up your job. Perhaps your partner could be a SAHD? Or some other arrangement.

Agreed - this is a thread about cold practicalities, not about whether marriage is "better" emotionally than cohabiting - of course it isn't. But the cold, hard fact is that if you are reliant on the other person's income you are better protected legally if you are married.

People need to make educated decisions about what is right for them. I think the OP is just making a plea for people to be (and become) better informed about what their choices may mean in the event of the relationship breaking down.

I think a better plea would be to please appraise yourself of the legal and financial situation. A woman might understand what a potentially vulnerable position she'd be in if things went wrong, but still have reasons why it might be the best thing for her anyway.

Dixie - yes. Lots of people avoid their responsibilities. But there is a difference between avoiding your obligations and having none to avoid.

I am also always troubled by the number of people who believe common law spouses exist in English law.

I'm married, but would be up shit creek without a paddle if we separated, as I have no career, or any prospects really
I should have maintained my independence, but circumstances dictated otherwise.
It's about the earning capability, not the marriage certificate!

Well said, OP. I can't believe how many women put themselves in such a vulnerable situation. Five minutes on the Relationships board tells everyone the pitfalls of giving up work to have children with someone you're not married to. Yes, everything may work out, but when it doesn't, the fall out is horrendous leaving women without any money and often without a home.

The biggest shock is when a relationship's gone on for decades. If the children have then left home and if you don't own half the house, you can be kicked out with nothing.

A marriage is a contract - by not taking part in it you're (often) leaving yourself very, very vulnerable.

I think I need to clarify the 'respect' issue. I did not word it well. If a couple decide to have children together, and the legal position regarding living together and marriage remains as it is AND the man is going to be the main - and possibly only- earner. Then surely the respectful thing to do is to ensure your partners financial security by marrying if they wished to do this. And that a refusal to marry (when the woman wishes to) gives a good indication of how he will behave should it all go wrong.
I feel very strongly about this. My bestf ended up with £500 pm maintenance and the 'right' to live in the 750k 'family' home for 5'yrs,..then nothing..after 25 yrs and four kids. She helped him rise to the top in a big city job. He 'didnt' believe in marriage, yet married his 25 yrs younger gf within 12 weeks of meeting...

I was married and got nothing from my ex - including child support. Getting married isn't a guarantee that you get support but it's a hell of a lot more likely than if you're not.

This isn't a slur on unmarried SAHM, it's not a a judgement - it's simply a fact. Getting married is a protection enshrined in law. It's literally just a contract.

Out of interest Dixie. Why don't you want to get married? This is said entirely without any ulterior motive, I am merely interested.

And yes, ultimately this is a plea, for a women to become better educated and to know their rights (or lack of them) should it all go wrong. In the threads I have read, the women in question were unaware that they had no rights to the home for example... Everyone has the right to do as they please, I am just asking for it to be more widely known how little rights there are.