MEN

[Bleakhouse1879]

I have been reading alot on here these past few days about many posters unfortunate experiences with their partners. I read stories of wives & girlfriends being raped or sexually assaulted by their partners, being beaten up, treated like dirt, robbed and belittled.

As a man, I am disgusted to hear that this sort of childish almost psychotic behaviour is so wide-spread with so many supposed 'men'. It has genuinely opened my mind to what is happening in my country. These sorts of behaviours were common place but still wrong during the 1950's. No person in Britain in 2015 should be subjected to this sort of disgusting behaviour.

No proper man would hit a woman or force himself on her or want her to feel anything less than tip-top, especially if his partner was the mother of his child. I don't think these people have the right to call themselves men and it doesn't do justice to the men out there who do want to treat their partner as a princess.

I hope any women who have been ill-treated in the past, don't tar all men with the same brush. We aren't all violent, misogynistic bullies. There are genuinely decent people out there and I hope the majority of my fellow men feel the same and it is just a case of a few bad apples

that's great, Bleak

do you tell these men face to face how wrong they are if you witness the behaviour you are describing ?

I share your horror Bleak, check out the White Ribbon campaign to see why we can do to changeover status quo. Theres any awful lot of ignorance as to the scale of the problem. AF is right, it's our responsibility to challenge these wrongs wherever possible.

Great to read.

I think the thing is that most men read about everyday sexism (leaving the a use out of things for a mo) but don't truly understand or appreciate how prevalent and debilitating this is to women.

The little things are left to slide and this opens the door to a general mindset that allows the big things in.

For example, I am retraining to return to work in a professional career. On the Facebook support group the vast majority of women are trying to catch up with their careers after children and struggle to fit in work, study and children. The men are breezing through.

We have a long way to go before women are equal to men

No person in Britain in 2015 should be subjected to this sort of disgusting behaviour

No they shouldn't by either men or women

AF: If any of my friends told me what they had done, I'd have a go at them and would no longer be friends with them. I think the sort of behaviour that may occur behind closed doors tends not to be boasted about in the pub. That I think is why reading about it on here has really shocked me about how much goes on.
These guys are adolescent and still essentially boys from an emotions perspective. No man wants to be labelled as a coward or a wife-beater in front of his peers and no man wants to boast that he had to force his sexual advances on someone.
Now I know about the scale of the problem, I will look at the White Ribbon campaign and will help out as much I can

I think your view that it is just a 'few bad apples' is naive at best. It also enables quite a prevalent view in society that it is down to an individuals choices. It's not. The men who have abused me are the product of a society that demeans and disrespects women consistently and without prejudice. Hence why one of my abusers actually said to me 'You ask people to hurt you' when he broke my ribs.

In his mind I'm a woman, eg weak, a sexual object and intellectually inferior (our culture and society peddles this constantly) so I asked for the abuse from him and the other man. The welsh footballer who raped the 19 year old, has he had to go into hiding and change his identity? Nope his victim has.

If you keep thinking it is just a few 'bad apples' and we as women have just unfortunately had relationships with them or been in their family as a one off you are really mistaken. I know you probably haven't meant to but I feel like you've belittled my experience of rape and domestic violence as 'bad luck' from these 'bad apples'. I feel a bit patronised tbh.

At the risk of starting a debate about free will, I think it is individuals choices. However, what enables and encourages it to happen on an epidemic scale is society. Both need to change.

I think there is a danger in saying it isn't individuals choices as it gives the opportunity to lay the blame somewhere other than the perpetrator of the behaviour.

Having said that I haven't experienced any of it first hand, and I am a member of the power holding group so that certainly colours my opinion.

At the risk of starting a debate about free will, I think it is individuals choices. However, what enables and encourages it to happen on an epidemic scale is society. Both need to change.

I think there is a danger in saying it isn't individuals choices as it gives the opportunity to lay the blame somewhere other than the perpetrator of the behaviour.

Having said that I haven't experienced any of it first hand, and I am a member of the power holding group so that certainly colours my opinion.

Sorry for the double post.

Hope that wasn't a case of mansplaining either.

mansplaining?

so when women behave in this ugly way (and a few do) would that be womansplaining???

Most people are decent. There are some who are absolutely not, from both genders. These people need to be punished and shunned so it doesn't spread to future generations. UK society is changing and needs to continue to do so.

BTW men who stay at home to look after the kids also struggle to get back into a career.

ps no need to be treated as a princess. Just an equal.

It's not just a few bad apples, far from it. Many men are awful, violent, controlling etc. – a large proportion. Furthermore, many men who consider themselves to be perfectly nice are deeply sexist in ways that they don't even think about, because sexism doesn't cost them anything and society supports them in it.

The only men I'll consider let off from this are those who are not only nice to their female partners, but pull their weight domestically - always, not just sometimes – and share out free time equally with their partner; seek equality in all things with women, and not engage in porn/lap dance clubs/any other crap that subjugates women and perpetuates the message that the point of women is to be sexually available to men.

However I love your thread title. MEN. Love it.

If it's not just a few bad apples, is this because of poor parenting?

Surely that individuals choices are only allowed/enabled to happen on an epidemic scale because they fear no real retribution or punishment from society though?

I don't think I was clear, yes my two rapists had individual choice and free will but their ability to assault me isn't just down to being a 'bad apple' is it? Society enables it.

I think focusing on these men as anomalies or one offs is really damaging. The justice system (which I am stuck right in the middle of at the moment) seems to have this view. In my line of work we have something called disguised compliance and professional over optimism. I think it suits society to see these abusers as monsters so there is no real response or actual redress. Look at rape convictions. Everyone wrings their hands about these awful rapes but are they actually stopped by a real deterrent? No.

Well said weedinthepool.

Special - Google the term "mansplaining" I was referring to my post, not to the behaviour specifically. Hope that makes sense.

I agree about both genders BTW, but I believe the abuse is heavily gender skewed by men being the perpetrators. Not just to women, but to each other as well. However, the OP was talking about male to female abuse, so I responded accordingly.

Oh I agree Weed, they aren't one offs. I suppose I just thought about the consequences of focussing on society alone. Sorry if I misunderstood.

It's not behaviour that I would call 'childish' personally.

I don't think parenting has to be terrible, to be deeply sexist and instill sexist attitudes – the key and most basic of these being that men get to do what they like and please themselves much more than women do, do less housework, have more free time while women are left doing childcare, and so on. And that being attractive to men, marrying and having kids is the be-all and end-all for women, while men can be ambitious. Kids grow up with that, they internalise that.

It's not just parenting though, it's everything – school peers, adverts, TV shows whatever. Also IMO women changing their name on marriage, because while many see that as simply a harmless tradition, I think it broadcasts loud and clear that the man is the main event, the head of the family, the branding of the union, the important one.

If that's what's on show to young kids, they will internalise it. It can be counteracted, but in general it's there to varying degrees, and to varying degrees of conscious awareness.

weedinthepool I certainly wasn't wanting you to feel patronised and I am sorry if you felt that way. I used that rather flippant language (bad apples..) as a way to hopefully summarise the level of DV. That was an error based more on wishful-thinking on my part rather than actual info given by victims. For that I am sorry too.

And I think that if deep down, on average, men feel more important and women feel less important, that explains why so many men feel they have a right to control, to take more for themselves, to behave unfairly in the home, and in more extreme cases to be violent, and so many women endure and suffer it.

everyday sexism project