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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Ultimatum?

66 replies

jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 00:41

Before I get started, I know it's Christmas... There are parties/drinking. Fine.

DH and I both had our work do last night. It was a big night, both quite drunk. Babysitter with DS, all fine.

DH had a lunch today, he said he wouldn't be out late (we are hosting a Christmas lunch - for his friends - here for 15 tomorrow).

Anyway, he is silent all day. No word. I finally managed to get hold of him at 11pm, he has been passed out on the tube and was in Watford, end of the line. He assured me he'd get the tube back into town and make his way home.

I have just spoken to him. He is now at the other end of London. He passed out on the tube again. I suggested he call his parents and crash at theirs, which he is going to do, they live very close to where he has ended up.

I'm now going to have a three hour round trip on my hands tomorrow to collect him. He was supposed to be dropping DS with his parents for the weekend, which still needs to happen, but I'm going to need to do that, and collect husband.

Am I wrong to be absolutely furious with him? He has left me with shit loads to do, on my own, because he can't control his drinking.

This is just the latest in a string of alcohol related arguments. DH is verbally/emotionally abusive when pissed, and was vile to me on the phone just now.

Is this good enough reason to give him an ultimatum? Drink, or me? He has admitted twice in recent months that he knows his drinking is a problem and that he would curb it. No sign of that happening at all.

OP posts:
AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 13/12/2014 00:47

Be prepared for him to choose the drink

Don't give an ultimatum unless you are 100% ready to follow through

lordStrange · 13/12/2014 00:51

I would get him to cancel his xmas lunch. How on earth will you do all that?

dorasee · 13/12/2014 00:52

Drink... it's the homewrecker no one talks about. In my eyes, it's a deal breaker.
He sounds as if he's putting himself in danger and then of course there's the results of his actions which land on you. It's a bummer and it sucks and yes, if my DH had such a problem, I would consider leaving him. I would leave him, tbh. However...

Have you both actually, actively faced this lion in the den? If he is seriously willing and able to deal with his drink problem, then of course support him and be there for him. He has to want to resolve this and he has to do it for himself most of all. If you're the one making the phone calls and looking up AA meeting points, then he's not serious and he's not ready. The commitment, the drive to be a better person who will overcome addiction to booze, must come from him. And that means he has to find the resources, the meetings, get the help from the GP... not you. If he doesn't try then I don't see how you can stay with such a guy.

Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 00:52

I desperately don't want to separate. But he is 45 FFS and acting like a teen. He wants another baby but there's no way on earth I'm doing that until he gets this drinking under control.

Reasonable, responsible family men don't behave like this, do they?

OP posts:
Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 00:55

After the last two occasions he has been this drunk (and verbally abusive with it), he has acknowledged that his drinking is a problem, it has been for a long time, he knows he's a bad drunk. He's mooted quitting altogether, but of course he's never even tried that. I don't think he's even tried to cut down either.

OP posts:
RubyGoat · 13/12/2014 01:01

If he could curb it, he would have done so already, or at least be making a proper effort to do so.

You could spend your whole life waiting for him to sort it. My mum did with my dad. He hasn't yet.

Please don't say you're considering having another baby with this man in the current circumstances. He can't even look after himself.

Do his parents know how he is with alcohol? Can you ask them for support?

Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 01:07

His parents know, yes. His brother does too, it has come up a few times... They ask how he is, is he going out a lot...

I have spoken to his mum tonight. She called to say he had arrived there, so she'll have seen the state he's in.

He has texted me to say they've all had a chat. Whatever that means.

OP posts:
Tobyjugg · 13/12/2014 01:08

Give him the ultimatum. BUT be ready to carry out whatever threat you attach to it if he goes for drink which he might do out of sheer bravado and a refusal to believe you really mean it. He's 45 FFS. This would be just about acceptable in a 20 year old. Fpr a bloke in his 40s is a sign he's an immature twat.

Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 01:08

And no. No more babies anytime soon. He knows that - though it wasn't necessarily for his drinking, more that we don't have sex, ever. I'm not prepared to be just a baby making machine. Anyway, that's another thread!

OP posts:
Tobyjugg · 13/12/2014 01:09

*For

Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 01:12

He's texting me saying he fell asleep because he's exhausted, and that I can't understand that. He's blaming it all on the fact that he's been up early with DS four times this week (6am). Seriously, he's being a complete wanker.

OP posts:
Notmeagain1 · 13/12/2014 01:13

It would be a deal breaker for me. He has an addiction and if he were serious about stopping he would be getting help. AA, counseling or something.

Please, please, please do not have another baby with this man. You say he is EA, the next step normally is physical abuse and one child possibly exposed is too much, dont add anothet one to the mix.

You have to really have a serious conversation with ur h and if he doesnt makr changes, you need to do whats best for you and your dc. Good luck.

Original poster
jugglingmonkey · 13/12/2014 01:21

As I've said, I really don't want to separate. He isn't drinking all the time, but we fight about this perhaps once a month or so.

Any other good ideas for an ultimatum? I could say that I won't entertain the thought of another baby until he either drastically curbs or stops altogether. It feels wrong to use a baby as an ultimatum though.

OP posts:
Tistheseasontobepissy · 13/12/2014 01:34

Once a month causing a row is a lot.

Take it from an ex piss head. If you can't do it over Xmas wait till new year and give yourself the ultimatum. He sorts his arse out or you split. and you stand by that. 1st of jan = d-day.

It's easy for people to shout LTB but that bastard was me.

The worst of it was I was a complete arsehole with dd when growing up. I didn't drink every day but when I did I went well overboard and it did effect her.

Your fella is fighting his own demons,when he has a drink in him , he doesn't want to stop . Only you can with draw from this. If he chooses to do it with you will be the sticker as you can't force him. you have to choose if you want to be apart of it.

Good luck x

Lucy90 · 13/12/2014 05:50

Yes it is likely he will choose the drink i think. My DM gave my DF this ultimatum 10 years ago, i was 14 and DB was 16.
He left and we havent seen him since-this was the best outcome as he was extremely abusive after a drink

DoIknowitschristmas · 13/12/2014 05:53

Well if you don't know where the father of your children is all day long because he is too out of it to contact you I would say that is very worrying. Then you find he is passed out on public transport late at night. That's downright dangerous. He can't even keep himself safe on a night out?

How can you have any trust in him? I think he is a poor excuse for a father and husband. You should not have to live like that.

Isetan · 13/12/2014 07:06

Any ultimatum that has maintaing the staus quo as an option, is a poor one. You aren't ready to issue an ultimatum because it appears that you haven't really grasped the real possibility that he will continue to choose alcohol over whatever threat you issue.

You can't fix him, your responsibilities begin and end, in how much of this abuse and dysfunction you expose you and your child to.

Contact Al-anon for support.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights · 13/12/2014 07:14

Well, if you don't want to separate, all you can do is accept you are living with an alcoholic who puts drink before his family. You can't DO anything else. Ultimatums don't work.

You should cancel lunch, keep DS with you and have a think about whether you actually really want to be living like this and if you even really want him to come home from his parents. If you do want him to come home, he can get the train.

Isetan · 13/12/2014 07:19

Do not collect him, cancel the lunch and stop enabling him (protecting him from the consequences of his poor choices).

Lucy90 · 13/12/2014 07:32

Also please consider your DS in all of this, the best way to protect him may well be to leave

rootypigsinblankets · 13/12/2014 07:36

No ultimatum. He won't honour it, and nor will you. And then you'll feel powerless and demoralised.

The version of an ultimatum that AnyFucker is getting at is more a warning. If this doesn't change I will leave, your mind is already made up. You're nowhere near that point.

Instead sit down with him and offer him a constructive route forward. Ask him to choose to take it with you. If he doesn't then you need to get out, and talking it over with him won't make a blind bit of difference.

And agree with Ise, I'd be cancelling the lunch.

rootypigsinblankets · 13/12/2014 07:41

Just read your last post, which I missed. What you're talking about is trying to get him to change his behaviour using emotional blackmail, and the most desperate measures you can cook up. Apocalypse scenarios and threats. And you sense yourself how fundamentally unsound that is, you say so.

No judgement, just the voice of experience.

I agree with pp that you need to focus on understanding your behaviour, forget his. This is not about blame, but about what you can control. Al Anon may well give you some insight fast. I remember going to meetings expecting to have a lightbulb moment about alcoholics. And then I had a lightbulb moment about the way people around alcoholics behave, and I realised that that was what I was really there for, that was what was valuable. Slapped my forehead and started listening really hard.

EhricJinglingHisBallsOnHigh · 13/12/2014 07:43

Your choices are
Accept that this is your life
Leave him
Or give him the ultimatum that he stops drinking entirely or you separate, and mean it
He can't be a moderate drinker clearly. My XH used to drink like yours. He has cut way back and rarely drinks excessively but about once every 6-9 months he goes on an all night bender, sleeping til 5pm the next day, losing his phone, missing contact with DS, failing to turn up for work etc. That's his problem and not mine but it demonstrates to me that he's not over his alcohol issues he just has them under control a lot more.

MeadowHeartshimmertheFairy · 13/12/2014 07:43

I think you might be married to my XH!

Four years ago I could have written your post word for word. The abuse escalated until one night he held me in a headlock and tried to pull my clothes off to have sex with me. He changed his mind and fell asleep instead.

I left the next morning. DS was 10 months old.

It was the best decision I ever made.

I had to realise that XH knew how he got when drunk yet still chose to do it anyway. He liked having an excuse to act like a twat. I used to think he was abusive when drunk. He wasn't, he was abusive. Full stop.

Please get your child out of this.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/12/2014 08:21

Why do you not want to separate, that is a question I would really like an answer to. What do you get out of this relationship?. Ultimately you may well have no choice but to do so. Also he is no role model for your children is he; the last thing they need is an alcoholic for a father.

Responsible family men do not indeed behave as yours has done. Alcoholics though do, this is par for the course. You lurch from one crisis to another, this is chaos really and your marriage is in deep crisis.

He will continue to choose drink over you people and he is already doing that. He is not at all interested in actually doing anything about his alcoholism and has paid lip service to it. He is also likely to be badly underestimating how much he is drinking and likely also blames you for wanting to curtail his "fun" and or "downtime" as well. Not to mention his denial which is par for the course too.

An ultimatum can only be issued once as well and you absolutely have to follow it through. They lose all their power otherwise.

You cannot and must not rescue and or save him; you can only help your own self here. I would be talking to Al-anon as they are very helpful to family members of problem drinkers.

You have to get off the merry go around which is alcoholism because you're also playing a role here in this too. The state of co-dependency often features in such marriages and that state is unhealthy. You're also his provoker and enabler; you never forget and you must not at all shield him from the consequences by at all collecting him. He must make his own way home, collecting him further enables him and he has more than enough enablers in his family of origin already. His parents are really also enabling him in all this as is his brother.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this