Archers thread #200: Trouble in Ambridge! (All 200 threads could have had this title.) Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to be Brian's child or stepchild, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Over to you!

I think Bert may have slept downstairs ... I can't see him managing the stairs. They probably had a downstairs loo and the council may have added a shower - not that Bert would use it. The kitchen sink would be enough for him!

In about 1971 I lived in a downstairs flat in Clapham Junction, which was unofficially sublet by the council tenants upstairs - a young couple with two small children. So they had the bathroom but we had the kitchen. Lord knows how they cooked. There was an outside loo for us (fun on winter nights) but we strip-washed at the kitchen sink. But hey, £5 a month!

<on edit> It occurs to me that £5 a month may have been more than they paid in rent!

I can't believe no one has commented on the fact that Jack had some framed superhero posters waiting to go on his bedroom wall. It reminded me that on top of all the other trauma Helen's boys have endured, they also lost Lee (I can't say I was sorry to see him go, but it must have had an impact on Jack and Henry who adored him).

You see, I never thought Jack and Henry adored him as such. I know Henry looked up to him as a karate (?) teacher but I think Helen was so determined to make happy families that they really didnt get a chance to work out whether they liked him or not ( with his little figurines…). Anyway, Im glad he’s gone because for all his supposed physicality he sounded like a right wet lettuce.

Ooh, I had forgotten Lee's collection of superheroes, still in their (unopened) boxes until Jack and Henry took them out to play with. Was it Joy who referred to them as "dollies"?

I knew the mention of superhero posters reminded me of someone!

But actually I’d had the impression it was Henry who valued Lee most, and would miss him most. And probably resent his mother for defenestrating him. For a while I rather hoped Henry might decide to emigrate to the US (to get away from Helen and Jack).

because for all his supposed physicality he sounded like a right wet lettuce. This is such a great description of Lee @Sidebeforeself. He should have been a bit of a superhero himself, but he was unable to convey that in his voice. Maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration say the boys adored him, but they did get used to having a father figure living with them (the second father figure Helen brought in for Henry). They’ve certainly had a lot of disruption in their short lives. I thought we heard classic Helen last night - getting her pregnant friend to do the decorating then telling her she was doing it wrong even after Kirsty had clearly followed her instructions, bustling off to tell someone to stop parking in front of her house, generally expecting the world to revolve around her with no self awareness whatsoever. I had a little pang for Kirsty when she talked about Erik sending her photos of sunsets - a life of weekend city breaks which seemed like such a glamorous lifestyle choice suddenly feels less appealing with a baby in tow.

I was actually apoplectic about Helen getting Kirsty to decorate for her. It was awful!

I’m afraid I’m likely to start doing something strange and, as an avowed atheist, start praying for a fictional character. Seriously couldn’t tolerate anything bad happening with Kirsty’s pregnancy.

Yup. Would be devastated if Kirsty lost another baby.

Yes, agree, it was downright weird - and Kirsty was having back pains. I was thinking WTH? (or even WTF?)

I laughed a fair bit last night at Helen's general awfulness and Kirsty's utter stupidity - why didn't she just say "Nope, I ain't goin' up no ladders, do it yourself you bossy cow"?

I hold out little hope for her relationship with Erik. Given that she has previously been left at the altar by Tom and married to Philip Moss, her track record suggests Erik may already be a bigamist with 17 children.

Somehow I feel more comfortable with an atheist praying for a fictional character than a believer doing so!

(I do pray, and have in the past found myself absent-mindedly praying for characters in books I have been particularly engrossed in.)

Esme? We haven't heard much from her for a while and she miust surely be an experienced farmer by now 😉

😂 Sometimes, in extremity, (exams, interviews) I used to ask my DM to pray for me, as she was more ‘qualified’. I always received a dusty answer, varying from ‘You know you can do it yourself?’ to ‘I pray for all of you, every day …’ She would definitely laugh at me praying for Archers characters.

Do not remind me of that whiny cow, @NetballHoop…

Weren't the boys still seeing Lee once a week or so until he went to America? So they must have liked him and missed him.

Bert's bedroom is downstairs. Tracey had Neil sorting it and the accessibility of the bathroom for him when she had herself added on the tenancy. Might have got some of the details not quite right.

Listening to Helen and Kirsty last night and then listening to Tom and Natasha, I started to understand why Tom ditched Kirsty. She was too reasonable and accommodating for him. Natasha is much more like Helen (the other woman in Tom’s life) - bossy, determined to get her own way, knows her own mind and isn’t going to let anyone else tell her what to do, basically wears the trousers and expects Tom to fall in line. It’s a personality Tom feels comfortable with,

Natasha is awful in many ways, but so well-acted that she can be very funny and makes me laugh. Helen is just awful, full stop. And humourless.

I don't think they'd do that.
I think there might be problems after the birth though, maybe post natal depression, finding the reality of being more or less a single parent much harder than she anticipated, not bonding with a much wanted baby etc.

Helen is possibly one of my favourite characters. Brilliantly acted, so much nuance, so much backstory which filters through into everything that happens to her subsequently. Jaw-droppingly self-absorbed, but with a capacity for great kindness, a truly multi-dimensional character whose every move and statement can be traced back to something she said or did previously. You can despise her, but at the same time feel huge sympathy for her. The SWs get it so right with Helen and the actress pitches her absolutely perfectly so she feels like a real person and not just a character.

I can't think of any examples of Helen's great kindness, other than giving Clarrie second option on going back to the job she was made redundant from, when it turned out they needed her after all.

Interesting… I think Helen is attracted to people who are a little bit (or a lot) vulnerable.

Romantic partners….
Greg
Rob - the narcissist in him would have played on this.
Lee - divorced and missing his daughters.
Dane - fell apart as soon as Helen ditched him.

Obviously Finlay is the exception and therefore she couldn’t commit.

Friends and others
Annette
Kirsty - victim of Tom, and generally no luck at all
Wants to be mates with Tracey - who is not remotely interested in being Helen’s best friend and cosy neighbour

@Darker you are forgetting her intense friendship with Adam. It never really rings true to me.

Ian not Adam. Isn't Henry Henry Ian Archer?

Maybe a scare as a result of the painting etc which turns out to be OK in the end.