Help, my daughter pooing herself isn't going down too well at school!!

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my daughter is in reception but has been in the schools nursery since she was two. She has a speech disorder and some general developmental delays. She is still regulary pooing herself, although she usually holds it in at school.
Recently though, she's been pooing herself at school quite regulary. She did on a school trip, during P.E and today, she did it twice. The teacher seemed a bit concerned and said she'd had words with her and made her clean herself up, even though she was asking for help,which I thought was a bit harsh.
I've tried everything to stop her doing it all the time. I just don't understand why she does it. She won't tell you either when she's done it, she'll just sit in it. She don't like being cleaned. I feel like we've tried everything and now it's becoming a bit desperate as I don't want it to effect her schooling. She told me today that the teacher was angry with her. I don't want the teacher to think we haven't bothered to train her or that we're too soft.
I'd be very greatful for any advice.

I think it's a shame you've been made to feel like it's such a problem. DS1 soiled himself often throughout reception, and the longsuffering TA dealt with it every time - with one exception, when I think she'd had a really bad day, and DS1 was the final straw and I was called in to deal with him. I kept a change of clothes and wipes for him in his PE bag.

The teacher always maintained that 'these things happen', and told us not to worry. I did make sure the TA got lovely end of term presents.

argh - you need to get her seen by your local hospital's paediatric incontinence clinic asap - get an urgent referral from your GP

constipation is incredibly common, especially with kids with issues like your dd - chronic constipation can lead to overflow, causing problems like you've described

is she still in the private school? imo this may well be an issue dealt with better by state schools as they will probably have more experience of special needs

it's absolutely not your dd's fault, she's not doing it deliberately and no-one should be being angry with her as that will just compound the problem

I dont know what to advise but IMO the teacher should have been a bit more sympathetic. You are not telling me a reception teacher has not experienced this at some point.

Does she just do it at school or at home too? is she anxious at school? Does she like going?

I think you need to have a word with the teacher to be honest.

My elder daughter suffered with http://www.kidsbehaviour.co.uk/children-and-encopresis.html this until she was about 7.It is not uncommon and can be treated quite easily by a paediatrician

the link again

Thanks, yes she's still at the private one at the moment. I've seen the consultant who put her on Movicol. She had one sachey and had dierrhea for 3 days after. I'm not sure she's constipated. She'll do it in her knickers regardless of the amout or consistency.

She could well be constipated. The runny poo flows around the blockage and she will not be able to control it.

Get to the doctors asap, like tomorrow. Get her back on the Movicol even if you have to keep her off school for a few days. Once the Movicol removes the blockage you have to gradually lower the amount you give her. If she has been constipated for a while this needs to be done over a matter of months.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read of that later. It sounds very much like what's happening with my DD.
I sometimes think she can't help it, then other times she'll blatently stand up and go red in the face pushing.
I wish I understood what's going on. She is extreamly good and well behaved, so I'm sure it's not behavural.
She does it at home, at peoples houses, out and about and even in the bath sometimes.

She sounds stresed.

Perhaps a state school might be more sympathetic?

You've had good advice here.
My DS suffered from encopresis due to stool with-holding for a couple of years - it was extremely distressing for the whole family. It took a very long time until we realised it was self inflicted, but that realisation helped us to seek out the best advice for this particular kind of soiling.
I thought he was straining to push but he was actually straining to with-hold - sometimes it can be really hard to work out exactly what they are doing - best of luck!!

I don't think she's always constipated, as she'll do the big ones in her knickers too.
She dosn't like sitting on the toilet for very long and often gets up when she hasn't finnished weeing, and dribbles in her knickers. I've tried lots of things to help her stay longer on the toilet, but it hasn't worked.

I just realised that you said she standing up and going red in the face pushing. That is EXACTLY what DS did - but he wasn't pushing. Happened to notice one day when his pants were off that his buttocks were clenched and that was the eureka moment.
I really think it sounds like she's with-holding. The best treatment for this, I believe, is movicol for evacuation and then movicol to keep stools soft and stop her holding them in (and also to allow the colon to return to its normal size - it will be terribly stretched if this is what has been happening)

Ds did the same in reception and it was a nightmare. Fortunately his teachers were absolutely fab and sorted him out every time. He had a bug that left him with fetal incontinence (which meant he didn't know he had pooed). He then developed a phobia about actually going to the loo at school. The only way he got over it was to insist that he did a poo every night whether he wanted to or not and I offered a reward if he sat on the toilet and tried. We used lactulose as well for a while to ensure he was 'regular'.

The teacher doesn't sound very helpful tbh. I don't see why a state school would be more sympathetic as suggested here.

I don't think she's stressed, I hope not anyway! She does enjoy school, and has lots of friends. I do worry that this isn't being delt with in the best way, as she's not doing it to be naughty, lazy or even forgetful.
We have a meeting on thursday with her speech therapist, physio therapist, occupational therapist, educational psychologyst, consultant and teacher, to discuss the findings of her acessment.
I hope that the teacher will see that it's not something she can help.

Please listen to us all - we have all been there with constipated children. It is not the same as adults.

Whatever is wrong, she needs help and you are the only one who is going to get it for her.

The teacher has said not to worry to much and that "We'll get her there". I hope she's right.

State schools have to deal with things like this and will have come across it before. Private schools do not have to, though some will.

Guess ds was lucky then as he is at private school. I would never have made the distinction and I would expect both state and private to deal with an upset 4 yr old.

she ate loads of fruit the other day and has has been very loose today. When she goes back to normal, I'll try the movicol again.
I am listening and I'm greatful for all the advice.

I agree with meloncauli - and don't let the school trivialise this - have you seen your GP about it? Mine had seen literally hundreds of cases of this type of constipation/overflow diarrhoea type thing in young children so she was absolutely brilliant about dealing with it.
DS would also sometimes do big poos in his pants - and even in the toilet sometimes.

What developmental delays does she have? Ds had gross motor development delay and wasn't potty trained until 3.5 day and 4.5 night. Bowel control is a gross motor skill.

When ds did have issues at school I reminded his teachers about his development delay but I think they would have been caring for anyone who had the same issues - his form teacher even got to the point of going to the loos and ensuring they were clean before ds would go in them.

I think they are concerned, but think some firm reminders will eventually do the trick.
I think the consultant will be able to explain to the teacher what's going on and the best way to deal with it.

basically, she's like a 3 year old in a nerly 5 year olds body. That's how I'd discribe her. She can't ride a trycicle, or do a 4 piece puzzle. Her drawing and writing are very immature for her age, but she's improving all the time.
Her teacher is lovely and is always telling her and us how proud she is of her and how well she's doing. I just think she needs some guidence on this particula problem.

My nephew was a bit like this, though never diagnosed as having any developmental delay. He just spoke like a much younger child, behaved like a much younger child- and yes, soiled his pants for a long time (and still had night nappies at age 5 as far as I remember). He is now 6 and does appear to be catching up; he no longer gives the impression of being so young.

But one thing I do remember about him at age 4/5 was that he did not really appear distressed at soiling himself, whereas most of his peers would have been in tears. He was like a much younger child in this respect.

So it could be to do with her developmental delay rather than constipation. But doesn't mean she won't catch up with this at some later stage. Discussing solutions with the school seems the way to go.

I don't think it does necessarily sound like constipation -maybe she simply doesn't have the awareness that she is about to poo?

Ds1 and dd took ages to 'get' this - way after they were dry - dd got it by herself, but with ds1 what we did was to sit him on the toilet every evening before bed (he often would poo in his pull up once in bed, so it seemed a good time), and just get him to try for a poo in the toilet. And if he did one, he got a prize (a wooden engine iirc - we were desperate!). That basically sorted him, because he got into a routine of pooing once a day in the toilet, and he still (at age 8) basically keeps to this routine, though it is less rigid now. We used to say to babysitters that ds1's routine was 'poo, milk, teeth, bed' which they found funny!

Might be worth trying - if there is a time of day when she is likely to need a poo. Ds1 and dd also both had toddler diarrhoea which I think meant they weren't so aware of when it was coming (or able to hold it in). Ds2 has always had much firmer poos, and although he was later to potty train, he was MUCH quicker, and had no problems with poos at all.