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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

No qualified teacher in class for two terms

151 replies

Belinda61 · 19/12/2017 22:47

My dd is just finishing her first term at primary school this week. She's settled in really well but we have just been told her teacher is leaving as of the end of term and they have no plans to replace her. The class will be looked after permanently by TAs. I understand that they are well qualified TAs, but that seems an awfully long time to be without a qualified teacher.
I've phoned the department of education and they told me that this was perfectly legal.
Has anyone else found themselves in this position? I'm so worried about her education suffering if she doesn't see another teacher until September, she's just starting to learn to read and write and generally lay the foundations for future learning. But equally changing schools just after she has settled in seems unfair (and that's if I can get a place for her elsewhere).
Does anyone know of any legislation or best practice guidance out there that I can use to back me up when I raise my concerns with the school?
Apologies if this is a repeated thread, happy to be pointed back to another one, but the only ones l could find were a bit out of date.
Thanks!

OP posts:

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GHGN · 19/12/2017 23:36

If it is an academy, they pretty much can do whatever they want to.

wtffgs · 19/12/2017 23:52

This is what you voted for if you voted Tory or LibDem The rest of us didn't vote for but will suffer the consequences of your vote. Education is full of canaries keeling over. The system is actually in crisis. If your kids are at private school - fab - except your privately-educated kids do need to a fairly functional infrastructure, staffed by reasonably educated people .......

Education is a total mess and we will reap the consequences- it is already probably too late for 3-4 birth years 2004-2007.

AssassinatedBeauty · 19/12/2017 23:57

It's not what LibDem voters voted for, that's a total misrepresentation.

@Belinda61 as PP has said, if it's an academy then this is totally legal and above board. There's nothing you can do to challenge the school. They seem to believe that the TAs can do the job in the interim.

In your situation I might see how things progress whilst also investigating the possibility of moving schools. Although there's no guarantee that this couldn't happen again.

wtffgs · 20/12/2017 00:01

I didn't specify what voters wanted, rather what they got as a result of the 2010 bodge. The LDs were desperately weak in coalition (and I am an ex LD)

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/12/2017 00:04

If a party doesn't actually win it's a bit odd to think they can implement their manifesto.

"This is what you voted for if you voted Tory or LibDem" No, it's not what LibDems voted for. It is what has happened but not what was voted for.

RandomHouseRules · 20/12/2017 00:07

It's legal if an academy, however it is highly unusual. You could follow your school's formal complaint policy and/or ask to meet with the head and /or a school governor to discuss your concerns. If it is understood that this is a serious concern to current and future parents then they may pay attention.

It is possible that the decision to do this is financial. School budgets are under a lot of pressure at the moment.

Original poster

Belinda61 · 20/12/2017 00:07

Thanks for your replies @GHGN @AssassinatedBeauty. Sorry I should have mentioned that it is not an academy, it is LA maintained, which was why I was quite surprised they could do this.

OP posts:

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 05:00

Then the information you've been given is incorrect.

No qualified teacher in class for two terms

Battleax · 20/12/2017 05:11

The rules were changed a few years back. The unions kicked off but nobody else seemed to notice.

Battleax · 20/12/2017 05:13

It was inevitable as soon as the principle was breached, but it's still not great practise so by all means complain to the governors and the LA too if necessary.

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 05:43

You must have qualified teacher status (QTS) to take up a teaching post in England in a maintained school. The rule doesn't t apply to academies or independent schools.

Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 05:50

there are no spare qualified teachers lying around. The country has a massive shortage and it is only getting worse. This is going to be common throughout your child's educations

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 06:38

There are plenty of unemployed teachers or teachers who have never found a permanent position

Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 06:41

There are plenty of unemployed teachers or teachers who have never found a permanent position

Thats simply not true.

It is very common now to have to advertise repeatedly to get a single applicant for a teaching job, and the quality of applicants available is often very very poor,

there are thousands of unemployed teachers, that is true enough, and unemployed because they would rather starve than go back into teaching.

YeahRightOk · 20/12/2017 06:44

Teachers don't want to teach in the UK because the education system is knackered. I'm a teacher and I would not teach there.

Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 06:50

The OPs DD is going to spend many many hours of her education without a teacher in the vicinity.

but don't worry, because any teachers who are nearby will be carefully scrutinising every single mark she gets for anything and statistically analysing it to death and beyond, so no actual education, but hundreds of personhours spent presenting hundreds of charts and graphs to illustrate her lack of education, so that'll make up for it.

Gooseysgirl · 20/12/2017 06:54

Totally agree yeahright. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. I'm one of the lucky ones and have a visiting specialist role for a local authority that enables me to work flexibly so my family actually see me - if redundancy happens I won't be returning to the classroom, I'll be leaving the profession. Sad but true. This gov has totally buried its head in the sand. Children with SEN are especially suffering due to schools not having enough money to employ support staff... I'm seeing this every day in my job, it is very very wrong. Sorry for such a depressing post but I can tell you that morale is at an all time low among many teachers.

hesterton · 20/12/2017 06:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CrossFreelancer · 20/12/2017 07:01

This is absolutely insane. It's legal if the school is an academy, I'm not sure about maintained schools.

School budgets have been cut and this is one way they will be adjusting to it. Less and less supply teachers are being used and TAs are being used for short and long term cover.

What I just don't understand is that teachers are under such huge stress and have to get their pupils to meet targets. How on earth will unqualified TAs be able to do this? Surely it's bad for the school

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 07:01

Greenshoots I know teachers who simply can't get permanent jobs and want them. We have teachers come to us from supply agencies who are desperate for a full time position. Teachers are leaving the profession but there are teachers out there.

Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 07:05

very very few, and there will be specific reasons why they can't get work.

autumnboys · 20/12/2017 07:06

This happened to one of mine - a term and a half with supply/TA/other teachers/the head. They didn’t know who was going to meet them each morning. It was a bloody shambles and he suffered as a result of it. If we meet this problem again in primary I will be looking at private tuition.

MaisyPops · 20/12/2017 07:06

There is no requirement for students to have a qualified teacher at all.

Teaching Unions have been on about this for years. A few years back an advert for 'unqualified maths teachers' was being shared in teaching circles. I know of soke schools being propped up by Teach First trainees (aka 3/4 of both core departments).

To be honest, I'd probably rather have a highly experienced TA in a primary class than a 21 year old cover supervisor doing cover for a year whilst they decide if they want to teach or not. The TA will know much more about early years reading etc than someone with a degree in whatever and zero experience with children.

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 20/12/2017 07:07

As a teacher, I feel the need to apologise to you OP. I'm sorry it has come to this.

TAs, however good, should not be expected to run an EYFS setting. It's not fair on them or the children.

Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 07:08

that is true, a lot of TAs are ex teachers, but if they wanted to teach they could get a job with teachers pay, rather than TA pay

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