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Original poster

No qualified teacher in class for two terms

151 replies

Belinda61 · 19/12/2017 22:47

My dd is just finishing her first term at primary school this week. She's settled in really well but we have just been told her teacher is leaving as of the end of term and they have no plans to replace her. The class will be looked after permanently by TAs. I understand that they are well qualified TAs, but that seems an awfully long time to be without a qualified teacher.
I've phoned the department of education and they told me that this was perfectly legal.
Has anyone else found themselves in this position? I'm so worried about her education suffering if she doesn't see another teacher until September, she's just starting to learn to read and write and generally lay the foundations for future learning. But equally changing schools just after she has settled in seems unfair (and that's if I can get a place for her elsewhere).
Does anyone know of any legislation or best practice guidance out there that I can use to back me up when I raise my concerns with the school?
Apologies if this is a repeated thread, happy to be pointed back to another one, but the only ones l could find were a bit out of date.
Thanks!

OP posts:
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Greenshoots1 · 20/12/2017 13:34

many TAs re teachers who don't want to teach any more

rosettesforjill · 20/12/2017 13:37

Actually I tell a lie because they could have recruited a teacher - they just would have been too inexperienced or just plain not good enough. (I guess part of being a strong headteacher means having high standards!)

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 15:13

High standards means leaving children to an unqualified teacher Hmm and breaking the law Hmm

admission · 20/12/2017 15:28

There are two different set of regulations at play here and they are in conflict with each other.
The infant class size regulations are very clear, no more than 30 infant pupils with one school teacher. As this class does not have a school teacher (someone who is qualified and is paid as a school teacher) then the school is illegal.
However on the opposite side of the coin it is not illegal to have no school teacher in a class and providing there is a level of supervision for agreeing lessons etc, there is no problem with using experienced TAs in a junior class. I do agree with other posters that well qualified and experienced TAs could well be better for the children in the class than a teacher with no experience, especially of reception year.
OP I would go back to the school in writing and say to them, you have concerns about what is happening and can they explain how they meet the ICS regs without there being a teacher present. They could have completely forgotten about this reg or alternatively they may have considered everything and come to a conclusion that the best course of action is to look to appoint a teacher for September who is a dedicated reception teacher. There is a massive difference and you certainly would not out of choice be appointing say a year 6 teacher to teach in a reception class, it is entirely different.

rosettesforjill · 20/12/2017 15:36

@Norestformrz sorry this was just in our circumstances - they've chosen to use a good (qualified!) supply teacher rather than a poor permanent employee while they look for the right person. They absolutely wouldn't use a TA

Ta1kinPeace · 20/12/2017 15:49

I just looked up my favourite teacher from school
(fee paying, secondary, selective)
he had no teaching qualifications ever
but he was a good teacher (and a good person who died too young)

eromdap · 20/12/2017 17:06

Are the TAs actually qualified teachers? I work in a school where half the TAs are and occasionally they are asked to teach a whole class and are paid as teachers.

HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 20/12/2017 17:34

Fee paying schools have always been able to employ unqualified teachers.

trinity0097 · 20/12/2017 19:09

If they have early years professional status then they are as good as a teacher but can only do Reception (or younger), do any of these TAs have this qualification.

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 19:47

It's an equal qualification but not the same and doesn't count as a qualified teacher in maintained schools for legal purposes.

user789653241 · 20/12/2017 19:52

Mrz, I am sure everyone wants qualified teacher for their children, legal or not. Sorry but your post sound a bit too aggressive.
Tbh, I'd rather have experienced TA rather than NQT for reception. At our school, reception TA never move, while KS1 nd KS2 TA's move around year groups. Because they are just so good and have tons of experience.

Norestformrz · 20/12/2017 20:00

It's the law Irvine or do we pick and choose which laws we will keep and which we ignore because it suits us?

Ferrousfumerate1 · 20/12/2017 20:02

This is an utterly depressing thread. It makes me want to go and live abroad

user789653241 · 20/12/2017 20:13

I know it's the law. But if the school can't recruit suitable teacher, what can they do?

I am not saying that it's ok to pick and choose. Of course they should follow the law. But if they can't, what can parents do? I am not saying we should ignore the law because it suit us. I just stated my personal feeling from my experience.

Norestformrz · 21/12/2017 06:13

There's usually a reason why some schools fail to attract applicants.

trinity0097 · 21/12/2017 06:41

We advertised last summer for a reception teacher. Had one application from someone with EY status, had been the sole teacher in a state school. We appointed them, good choice.
Reception TA maternity cover, advertised twice to start in Jan, we are having to interview the one applicant just before term starts as they are overseas.

It’s so hard to recruit decent ks1 and eyfs staff. A ks1 job we had our last summer attracted hardly anyone, we ended up not appointing as the two we did interview were poor. Same with Maths teachers, I have to work Saturdays and Sundays doing my deputy stuff as I have to teach too much as we failed to recruit a maths teacher. No applicants!

This is in a lovely independent school in Surrey, no behaviour problems, small classes, bright kids, longer holidays.....

Norestformrz · 21/12/2017 06:44

We get dozens of applicants and it can be quite difficult to short list. Recent appointment was difficult because two of the applicants were so good. Bog standard primary in area of high deprivation.

Returntoteach · 21/12/2017 07:01

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user789653241 · 21/12/2017 07:04

My ds's school mostly consists of teachers of less than 3 years experience in KS2.
Ks1 is very solid, but ks2 is so weak and several teachers left during the year over last few years. They never managed to recruit new teacher during the year. Deputy head took over the class, and get another NQT for the next year. Our school's teachers are all young, and I am sure children love it, but they lack depth and experience.

RavenWings · 21/12/2017 07:28

There are huge recruitment drives by agencies in Ireland to recruit Irish teachers for the English system. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I've been messaged a number of times as it is but I like my work/life balance here, and my curriculum.

MaisyPops · 21/12/2017 07:29

There's usually a reason why some schools fail to attract applicants
Agree.
I saw essentially my job but at another local school with a substantial pay rise. I wouldn't touch it. (I value being in a school with strong and supportive leadership, who care about workload, care about staff abd student wellbeing. The pay rise wouldn't make working in that paritcular school worth it).

I think it ended up being filled by an ex teach first student who'd been teaching 2 years and on some leadership fast track.

Other times it is a shortage of decent applicants (my school this term).

viques · 21/12/2017 14:38

.......and yet I was listening to a discussion the other day about how if the learning gap between rich kids and poor kids is ever to be reduced then the vital input needs to be in Early Years, because if it is left any longer the gap becomes insurmountable.

It has always been the same, early years has always been the Cinderella , remember the call for a "Mums Army" to take over reception classes last time there was a funding/staffing crisis.

Underparmummy · 22/12/2017 15:03

My dd (year 3) has now had 3 terms of fudged teaching between mat leaves and teachers being signed off with stress. I'm pulling her out at Easter and going private. She has suffered so much and now dreads going to school (total turn around). Highly unsettling to not have a constant teacher.

State system is totally shit as far as I can see from here. Utterly depressing.

Bitlost · 27/12/2017 16:33

Blimey. I've loved all our TAs but as TAs not teachers. Can you move him to another school?

FitBitFanClub · 27/12/2017 16:49

Maybe show the school the article below from the Evening Standard and inform them of the possible consequences to your child's education. I would be very unhappy in that situation.

You don't think the school is aware of the issue? You can march in and complain all you like, but finally, what teachers have been predicting and complaining about for years, is coming home to roost. Government meddling (from all parties over the years, Labour included) has caused immeasurable damage in schools, and teachers have had enough and are walking out.

And now it's affecting your child.