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No qualified teacher in class for two terms

151 replies

Belinda61 · 19/12/2017 22:47

My dd is just finishing her first term at primary school this week. She's settled in really well but we have just been told her teacher is leaving as of the end of term and they have no plans to replace her. The class will be looked after permanently by TAs. I understand that they are well qualified TAs, but that seems an awfully long time to be without a qualified teacher.
I've phoned the department of education and they told me that this was perfectly legal.
Has anyone else found themselves in this position? I'm so worried about her education suffering if she doesn't see another teacher until September, she's just starting to learn to read and write and generally lay the foundations for future learning. But equally changing schools just after she has settled in seems unfair (and that's if I can get a place for her elsewhere).
Does anyone know of any legislation or best practice guidance out there that I can use to back me up when I raise my concerns with the school?
Apologies if this is a repeated thread, happy to be pointed back to another one, but the only ones l could find were a bit out of date.
Thanks!

OP posts:
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runningoutofjuice · 29/12/2017 06:54

This is why TAs need their own union. All over the country TAs will work the same hours eg 27 hours, 39 weeks a year for the same advertised salary. But some are on a 52 week contract and others are pro-rata'd. Completely unfair and has a devastating knock-on effect on pensions. (Sorry for the de-rail)

Chaosofcalm · 29/12/2017 06:54

This issues is only going to get worse
www.teachers.org.uk/edufacts/teacher-recruitment-and-retention

Greenshoots1 · 29/12/2017 06:55

She has a PgCE

so she is a graduate, and a trained teacher?

She might not have GCSEs, but will have similar, equivalent qualifications

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 07:10

Our TAs work 37hrs and attend staff meetings and the same CPD teachers receive.

Greenshoots1 · 29/12/2017 07:19

Our TAs work 37hrs

exactly, so less than half the hours of a teacher, and that does not include holidays and weekends, so if a TA taking a class demanded over time for the extra hours it would work out as more expensive.

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 07:27

Level 2 jobs around here are paying double that Maisy £16123 - £17419
Level 3 £20661
That's a bit higher than what they are advertised as in my county. Though I've not seen level 3 jobs in years.
But then it gets dropped to school hours only and then it's dropped again for term time only. And only then are tax and NI taken off.

That's why some TAs in our neighbouring county were campaigning. Their salaries were advertised as 'real salary' and were lower e.g. advertised as a lower salary but that was your year pay and then your tax comes off. The council decided that TA pay needed to match the main council worl so decided they wanted to cut their salariea and do the type of reductions applied to TA jobs in other counties (tern time/32 hours) and thr TAs were pointibg out the unfairness of it because their salary as advertised was already lower to account for the term time only element.

A colleague was TA as prior to doibg their PGCE. They took home £9,000 for a job advertised around the £15,000. But part of that was that as a level 2 TA with a degree in theirsubject they were covering a number of classes because the option was them or a non-specialist, unqualified cover supervisor from the agency who the kids didn't know. Challenging school with high staff turnover? They decided that the specialist who the kids knew was the better option.

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 07:28

Teachers contracts say 1265 directed hours (or 32.5 hours per week). Yes we all work at home doing planning, marking etc but those are our contracted hours.

Greenshoots1 · 29/12/2017 07:33

no, those are the hours that can be specified that we are required to stay on site for a specific task, it doesn't account for all the other jobs you have to do on site which can be done at a time of your choosing, or the hours done at home

Greenshoots1 · 29/12/2017 07:33

the 1265 hours is lesson times, meeting times and parents evening times, nothing else.

Greenshoots1 · 29/12/2017 07:35

I need to do at least 5 hours a week at the photocopier, for example, but that is not directed time, because I can do it at 5.30 am, or 5.30 pm, the choice is mine

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 07:39

the 1265 hours is lesson times, meeting times and parents evening times, nothing else
This ^^ That is our directed time.
School will do a directed time plan and publish it at the start of the year (or in my school in the july before so people can plan).
That doesn't include any planning or preparation outside of PPA, admin, photocopying, after school revision sessions etc.

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 07:41

Photocopying is one of those jobs that teachers aren't meant to be doing Wink but we all do. 5 hours a week! Shock I probably don't do 5 hours photocopying in a month.

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 07:58

I think the wording is that 'bulk photocopying' is in the tasks for support staff

I don't do much copying but will run off 15-30 sheets now and then.
If I've got exam papers, whole year group resources, things that need laminating, cutting or piles of stuff that needs doing then i put it in with the technician to do.

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 07:58

I don't know about you Greenshoots but my pupils are only in lessons for 22.5 hours per week.

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 08:00

Norestformrz
28 hours a week of lessons/form time here.
Breaks and lunches on top of that.

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 08:00

I would class 5 hours photocopying as bulk!

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 08:04

Our pupils are in school for 27.5 hours but that includes lunch and break times (8.45-3.15)

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 08:07

Depends what it is.
If it's 5 hours doing what some if my colleagues do then it's lots and lots of groups of 30 which is often not that essential (e.g. copying and trimming learning objectives to be stuck in exercise books / quiz starters that could easily be done on the board etc). That might be a lot of time but it's not bulk copying. It is a teacher chosing to do lots of sheets.

Our technician (rightly in my opinion) is of the view that basic class sets of things are teacher copying. We have some colleagues who put everything in with the technician and it takes the piss.

Bulk copying is more than basic class sets. It's revision guides, exam papers, displays, cards, laminated jobs etc. At leadt that is how it works in thr secondaries I've worked in.

MaisyPops · 29/12/2017 08:09

Norestformrz
Are you primary or secondary?
We have 5 60min lessons a day plus form time. 28 hours and breaks/lunches are on top of that.

Norestformrz · 29/12/2017 08:12

Primary the same as the OPs child

FabulouslyGlamorousFerret · 29/12/2017 08:12

In our area the teachers that are unemployed are usually shit and not employed as teachers for a reason!!When we have agency staff they are either choosing to do agency because they have had enough of teaching full time, or they are shit and can't find a job and hoping for an 'in'! There really are some shockers sent through the agencies!.

runningoutofjuice · 29/12/2017 08:15

I wonder who will do the support tasks when all the TAs are covering classes? Shock

Mychristmasdinner · 29/12/2017 08:47

A TA who is not claiming their over time is letting us all down, staff, children, parents, everybody.

TAs in this area are paid hourly, so in theory could claim overtime. However, in this area at least , there is a 'catch all' clause in the job description saying something like ' and any other duties the headteacher considers appropriate for the role'. So TAs may not have a lot of choice if their ht applies this . As for TAs letting everybody down - most would love to do this, but, know that support staff generally are the first to go in times of financial difficulty. And it's easy to cut a TA hours to a point where the job is not financially viable for them and they have to move on. TA jobs do not grow on trees - many schools here only now employ lsas for 1-2-1 support on temporary contracts , no general TAx at all. And given those conditions, you want TAs insist on claiming overtime, knowing that next September they may not have a job to return to?

Battleax · 29/12/2017 08:50

However, in this area at least , there is a 'catch all' clause in the job description saying something like ' and any other duties the headteacher considers appropriate for the role'.

That "catches" different types of activities outside the main duties outlined on the job description. It doesn't cover extra, unpaid, hours.

Battleax · 29/12/2017 08:53

And given those conditions, you want TAs insist on claiming overtime, knowing that next September they may not have a job to return to?

Unionise. En masse. It makes a huge difference.

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