How do you suddenly believe in something you didn't previously believe?

[AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump]

I have recently though how nice it must be to have a faith and a religion. It must be nice to believe that there's a god or some sort of power in charge. I really like all the gubbins that goes along with religion too, the songs, the traditions, the pretty buildings. It must be nice to be in the gang.

However, I can never and will never be any religion because I don't believe in any god.

This got me thinking - how do people who have never previously believed in a particular religion's beliefs suddenly decide they do believe in it all? How does an adult decide that actually there probably is an omnipotent power in the sky and he's almost certainly called [insert deity of choice] and [Judaism / Islam / Christianity / Other Religion] is definitely the right way to go about worshipping him.

I'm genuinely interested. I realise my terminology may be a bit dodgy in places but I hope this doesn't become a discussion on semantics. I want to know how you go about believing in something you previously didn't believe to be true.

I have never believed that my fridge has a secret personality and likes to get dressed up and go out clubbing while we're all asleep in bed. I will never believe that. Likewise I will never believe in some Other Power or Force or something in the factual detail contained in most religions.

I feel a bit sad sometimes that religion of any sort will never be an option for me. I'm going to press post now and I really hope I've not been grossly offensive.

All deity are male - is it any wonder then that women who live with men find religion incredulous? Seriously, given seven days what could the average man do? Create a whole universe? No. Tired we may be, stupid we are not.

Alice, this is a question I've always wanted to know the answer to. I think the only answer will be "you just do"

It's perfectly ok to like the songs/buildings as I do to.

Don't worry - it sounds as if you won't ever believe it because you are a rational person. That shouldn't stop you feeling churches are "nice" (they can be) or that the architecture and music are wonderful (they are), or that the sense of community a church brings is something to envy if you're not part of it (it can be). But if you haven't got the god thing - and I totally sympathise, having abandoned it long ago - then it can be tricky.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think you're alone. You can't just believe something that you don't - if I hold up three fingers then just deciding that you are going to believe you can see 2 is not going to work, no matter how hard you try.

I was raised Catholic - but by very liberal people who encouraged free-thinking (including local priests and the nuns at my school). So I have never had the negative aspect of religion personally that other people have.

I have long ago given up trying to reconcile my lack of faith (I am an engineer - I find it difficult to logically conclude there is a god) with my general experience of going to church. I find comfort in the ritual, in the community and in the quiet reflection. Having moved away from my family and friends, it was a great comfort to attend a new church for a while and immediately feel accepted because the order of service, prayers, hymns were more or less the same.

Does that help?

Well it's difficult and if you don't believe then you just don't.

But IME previous unbelievers have changed their beliefs because something has happened in their life which has made a difference. For instance, I know several people who have experienced faith healing.

Others have just gone into church on impulse (interested I guess, like you) and 'found something' spiritual. It's very difficult to explain. I think rational people can still believe in God btw.

If you wanted to go to church in a questioning/ interested way while not exactly believing, then I don't think anyone would mind or even know. You won't get chucked out at the door or asked lots of tricky questions. Lots of people I know go to church for the social aspect.

HTH.

In my experience if you believe then you "just do", but if you don't then you don't for a reason or reasons which you've thought about long and hard.

Hi, I don't think you've been offensive in the slightest, you've expressed a tricky concept very well.

For me there's two separate things - "Faith" is a feeling/belief that there is "something" outside of ourselves, something which is powerful and benign and wants to relate to humanity. And "religion" is a human way of responding to that faith - religions have sets of rules and attitudes, and an agreed(ish) set of characteristics which they think "God" has.

For me, I felt the existence of God, then looked around at religions and decided that I was reasonably in agreement with one, and joined it. The chances are, the one which "suited me" was as much about culture and the tradition I'd grown up in, as much as the religion itself.

Some people have faith but feel no need fr religion, some people follow a religion but not really the personal faith. Some people do both or neither.

I think if you don't "feel" anything about the existence of God, then there's no real point in going along with a religion. But maybe you could look for some other organisation which would give you a community and sense of purpose? Working together with others for a common cause is a good feeling, whether or not it has any spiritual component.

A good bang on the head might work. Or shoving an electrode up your nose a couple of times. (There have actually been some studies which appear, at least, to demonstrate that electrical stimulation of certain areas of the brain can produce feelings that there;s a 'presence' etc).
But I wouldn't bother if I were you.

And if you electrically stimulate other parts of the brain, you can produce feelings of "pain". This does not however prove that pain does not exist.

Interesting replies. I'm really chewing this over at the moment.

I was brought up loosely Christian, so the idea of a God is one that has always been around for me. In fact, as a child I used to feel a bit guilty and hoped that God didn't mind too much that I didn't believe in him in the slightest . I do still feel cross sometimes that I slip into an old habit of thinking in terms of there being a God, and it's purely because my parents chose to impose what I now consider to be total untruths on my childish mind.

I wonder if those people who discover faith as adults have actually always had it, but buried deep down? That would tie in with potoroo and UQD's points that there is generally a reason for not believing.

I will not bring my children up with any stealth faith imposed upon them and I really worry about that. It's an enormous decision to make for another person. They won't be able to suddenly 'switch on' a faith, and so they won't have access to something that is an enormous comfort to the vast majority of people in the world.

A bit rambly, sorry.

AMIS - I find this point of yours really interesting; "For me, I felt the existence of God, then looked around at religions and decided that I was reasonably in agreement with one, and joined it."

Feeling that there must be some sort of spiritual power I can understand. It's transfering that to a religion that I stumble at - religions are so very specific about everything. Can you be in 'reasonable agreement' with something so prescriptive? (actual question, not rhetorical one).

Hate to be picky (oh wait, no I love to be picky! ) but if pain is a message that a part of your body is damaged then an electrically produced pain is a false message and untrue. Lots of people do experience false pain which just goes to show that feeling something isn't a reliable indication.

Can you be in 'reasonable agreement' with something so prescriptive?

Yes I think so. MY DH is Anglican, yet he struggles to believe in life after death. I think it's all about developing your beliefs; you don't have to 'sign up' to everything at the beginning.

Alice - interesting post, and something I have always wondered.

Alice, with regard to your children it's all about giving them information and enabling them to make a choice. If they know of faiths, they can hopefully make an informed decision of their own when they are older. Maybe it is easier to 'switch off' a belief than 'switch on', I really don't know. Sorry if I'm confusing the issue.

Well, not all versions of all religions are that prescriptive. I'm in the Scottish Episcopal Church, it's part of the Anglican Communion, so associated with CofE but not completely the same. There are some parts of its belief which are fairly generally required, eg the Nicene Creed. But even that has parts which can be interpreted in different ways by different people. In my specific church even the part of the Creed which refers to Christ going down to Hell has a footnote that it means "the place of the dead", so doesn't require me to claim to believe in people being roasted for eternity.

Im many Christian denominations, you'll find a very wide range of beliefs. I can't speak for other religions as I don't have detailed knowledge, but I think most have a "liberal wing" of some kind.

Onager - I'm only saying that the experiment does not prove anything one way or the other. The fact that we can show the neuron pathway by which something is experienced doe snot prove that the phenomenon is false, or that it is genuine. Personally, I'd be amazed if neurones were not firing in the brain when people have a religious experience.

For me it's been a process of learning not to believe. I used to have a vague faith, but I see it as something from my earlier life. I've moved forward. I could no more unlearn atheism than I could unlearn German, or how to be a parent. I'm always intrigued by people who "get" god in later life because to me it will inevitably seem like a retrograde step.

I am intrigued by that thought UQD.

How can anything which makes people happier and more peaceful (in whatever way works for them) be a retrograde step? I am not saying that this exclusively means 'getting God', and certainly not organised religion, but to me it seems strange to think that developing a spiritual belief is always a backwards step.

In terms of logic. It be like "unlearning". I mean, sure, if people want to have something that gives them a feeling of comfort, that's fine. I know a lot of fiction which does the same, but I am aware it is fiction.

You can't believe in fiction though!
Not to the extent of it really affecting or changing your life. Well maybe some people can (soaps etc!)

MrsSB - but a lot of people do believe in fictionm particularly children (loads of kids are terribly disappointed when they find out they can't actually go to Hogwarts). I don't actually see why they shouldn't, but then I don't actually see any difference between believing that Hogwarts is real and believing in any deity or specific myth system that's officially labelled 'religion'. While I don't mind intelligent people remaining convinced of the existence of some or other invisible big daddy in the sky despite no evidence at all for any such thing's existence, I do kind of wonder how they can hold such beliefs when it's all so patently ridiculous, and the trappings of all religions include so much utter nastiness (the misogyny, homophobia, racism etc).

I consider myself really lucky that I was raised completely without religion by my parents. I was aware of it though as we lived in a Catholic country and of course once I went to school God was talked about. When I have kids I will do the same for them.

I was very interested in different religions when I was a teen but never ever believed. Still don't.

I guess it's harder for people to 'unlearn' what has been put into their heads from a very young age, particularly when it's all based upon good and evil!

I think, Alice, that you are completely right. I am a Christian but until I was 17 I had been brought up by my Mum (Of course you are a Christian, you were born one...) and Dad (all wars are caused by religion, there's no such thing as God). I was deeply cynical, and described myself as an atheist. But then I experienced God, and have been a Christian ever since.

My Mum & Dad still hold their views, but while my Dad originally tried to ban me seeing my Christian friends, he soon realised that I was the safest I could be, and 12 years on sings the praises of my church family, whilst maintaining that he will never believe.

There are several verses in the Bible that talk about getting faith, if you are interested. I think that if you ask God to show himself to you if He is real, he will.

Of course you can believe in fiction - vast swathes of religious mythology are made-up and people believe them.

I am coming at this from the opposite end: I spent years not being a Christian because I disapproved- but I could not stop believing in God, because I genuinely believed that he existed- and if He did, He clearly wasn't going to vanish in a puff of smoke just because I decided I didn't need Him.

And btw, I was not brought up to believe by my parents: I'm the only Christian in my family. They were tolerant of my beliefs and kind, but did not share them.