How do you suddenly believe in something you didn't previously believe?

[AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump]

I have recently though how nice it must be to have a faith and a religion. It must be nice to believe that there's a god or some sort of power in charge. I really like all the gubbins that goes along with religion too, the songs, the traditions, the pretty buildings. It must be nice to be in the gang.

However, I can never and will never be any religion because I don't believe in any god.

This got me thinking - how do people who have never previously believed in a particular religion's beliefs suddenly decide they do believe in it all? How does an adult decide that actually there probably is an omnipotent power in the sky and he's almost certainly called [insert deity of choice] and [Judaism / Islam / Christianity / Other Religion] is definitely the right way to go about worshipping him.

I'm genuinely interested. I realise my terminology may be a bit dodgy in places but I hope this doesn't become a discussion on semantics. I want to know how you go about believing in something you previously didn't believe to be true.

I have never believed that my fridge has a secret personality and likes to get dressed up and go out clubbing while we're all asleep in bed. I will never believe that. Likewise I will never believe in some Other Power or Force or something in the factual detail contained in most religions.

I feel a bit sad sometimes that religion of any sort will never be an option for me. I'm going to press post now and I really hope I've not been grossly offensive.

I was brought up as a Methodist and was ok with the whole concept until I was about 14, oddly coinciding with the time I started going to bible classes! Then I started to question the logic and some of the content and beliefs - and then I stopped going to church, and then I decided that I didn't like organised religion over much.

I still go to church occasionally but more because it suits me to do it - Remembrance Day is my annual event, rather than Christmas.

But, I still believe in a Higher Power. I believe that our souls do go on, but I prefer the concept of reincarnation (or recycling, as I prefer to call it), as the idea of an ever-expanding heaven or hell doesn't make sense to me.
(Of course, to non-believers, none of it makes sense but we all have our own level, don't we.)

I am a trained scientist but have never found that science and my beliefs conflict - but then I don't believe in the Bible in its entirety - it is the word of Man, not of anyone else - their attempts to make sense of what they saw and understood at the time.

Sometimes I find things that resonate with my own personal beliefs - the first part of Ben Okri's book, The Famished Road, being one of them. I liked his spirit world. I like the bit in Cocoon where all the spirits go up into the sky as brilliant blue bits of light - that fits, for me.

I still feel spirituality in churches (as well as all sorts of other places) but I won't subscribe to any religion as such - mostly because I simply don't believe that only one of them can be right and the others all wrong, which (to me) is comparable to everyone believing that their football team is the greatest. And too many atrocities are committed in the name of religion for me to want to be a part of it.

There - that's my twopennorth - hope it helps your musings!

I'm with Thumbwitch on this one. Great post. I identify with the unlearning as mentioned by UQD too. I think this is where many people end up who are in the posiiton of no longer believing something which they previously did. Through reading, talking to others and questioning there is a realisation that something doesn't have all the answers aand then you make a choice to believe it still or not. Or too still believe in some of it.

Just read a fascinating book called the wayward mind by guy claxton. Pretty much shows how our entire spiritual experience, consciousness, psychological neuroses can be entirely explained by the brain's own functioning. Yet concludes that essentially thre is nothing wrong with myths, faith and ultimately religious explanation for things because humanity needs all the explanations available.

This kind of explains how a non believer could believe somehting and wraps up the 'after a significant experience' thing. I think the gradual acceptance thing is true and the not really sure where it all fits idea that suddenly becomes clear and results in later in life belief in anything.

Alice,

Whether you believe in God or not makes no difference to whether he exists or not (I believe that he does). He is at work in your life whether you see that or not.

Could explain your recent attraction to religion.

Thats not my monster -if I can attempt to answer some of your interesting questions.

What is lost by choosing to believe in a greater power?

It is not a matter of choice,like choosing
a pair of shoes, rather as the testimonies on this thread bear witness, faith seems to
be an emotional reaction, rather like falling in love, you might be hard pushed to justify why you fell in love with one man over another - you just know.

How was the world/universe created exactly?

Blimey you're not asking a lot are you.

Most scientists seem to agree on the BIG BANG
THEORY where the universe was created and continously expands. To talk of a time before the big bang is confusingly absurd because time only existed from when the universe came into being.You can say the universe will eventually collapse and then
start all over again. or that our universe
is one of a series of multiverses that we can never access. The latest theory is that
we are 3d hologram existing on a 2d plane.
You can also say there is supernatural God
who has some measure of control over these events. No one knows and probably will ever know. If you postulate the God option fine. but I dont see how that advances your argument, a supernatural being is of academic interest only unless he has some
committment to homo sapiens.

How did a random accident allow result in a perfect place for life to thrive.

You are looking at the question from the wrong angle. If you saw a puddle in a pothole
you would'nt say how fortuitous it was that he puddle was just the perfect size to fill the hole, life as we know exists on earth now because the conditions are right, in six billion years when our sun expands our earth
will be like mercury is now.

How could such beauty or complexity of nature exist.

Read a book like Red queen by Matt Ridley,enjoyable and interesting. I notice that mention the beauty of nature. I presume you mean attractive birds or majestic big cats rather than the malarial mosquito or the Ebola virus.

Interregnum - I believe that I have faith and for me it WAS an intellectual choice more than an emotional reaction. I think emotions have very little bearing on faith in the long term.

Also, it's pretty easy to explain a puddle in a pothole - less easy to explain the complexity of a human being created with thoughts, feelings and emotions!

IorekByrnison you are right. I do feel happier dealing in certainties. Generally I like to do things 100% or not at all, which I think is why I stumble with the idea that a religion is a journey through which your faith is carried.

Another point, the comment I made about the pretty buildings and songs etc was not expressed terribly well. Of course there are aesthetic and pleasing fripparies surrounding a religion but I'm not so shallow as to be hankering only for those things. It's not even quite the sense of belonging or being in the gang that I envy. I think it's the certainty. I live in a Muslim country and I often envy the certainty and containedness of the muslims I meet. Islam is a way of life, and it must be comforting to have so much of your life known for sure. However, having given this a bit more thought in the shower this morning I've realised that it's most certainly a Grass Is Greener thing. From the outside I can envy the cultural traditions and peaceful mindset, but in reality I would hate the mysogeny and inflexibility. I'm summing up big thoughts inadequately here. I realise there's more to it, and I also realise that I've been a bit lacking in thought about this particular point.

Now, I've been reading and rereading the posts which in various ways allude to the glory of god. People often talk about how amazing the world is, and how they see god in the wonder of everything and in their children and so on. This line of reasoning has always really clanged for me, and I've been trying to work out why.

I think the idea of a greater power, or Other power is one that I am okay about. I don't know there is one (or some), but I certainly don't know there isn't either, and I have no strong views either way. I think I lean more towards the idea of there being some sort of something because we know so little about the infinite universe that it's not unlikely. So, big supernatural or spiritual or other sort of being or energy or force, sentient or otherwise... yes. Which, if anyone is still reading, is a massive leap from where I started this thread and something I am very happy to have rambled towards.

But... I have also pinpointed my uneasiness about religion, and rejection of any sort or glory or worship. It doesn't lie with the religion at all. It lies in the idea that this other force cares about us or what we do. If there is one, I really don't see how it can possibly care about us. I could bring myself to be mindful of an other power, but praise, worship and glory - no! Why should I?

And although I have a sneaking feeling that I am now about as embarrassing and incoherant as a drunk rambly old aunt at the fag end of a wedding, I feel far less knotty in my head about it all. I hesitate to use the word peaceful... I feel calmer and happy with working out what sits comfortably for me.

When I was little I was very concerned about the souls of cavemen. I was too scated to ask my teacher about it.

When I was little I was very concerned about the souls of cavemen. I was too scated to ask my teacher about it.

It's true that 'whether you believe in God or not makes no difference to whether he exists or not', but then that is also true of any other being or force which may or may not be fictional (and probably is). At some point you have to take a sensible decision based on the available evidence, otherwise we'd all go through life open-minded to the possible existence of the Easter Bunny, Thetans and the Invisible Floating Giant Pink Gerbil.

What's a Thetan?

Scientologists believe our souls are thetans an alien race whoh have lived on other planets before earth.

UnquietDad - I think the question of whether or not there is a God is probably the most important question there is, and it is also the one question which we cannot rely on being answered by physical 'evidence'. There is plenty of evidence around to show there is a God, but it is the way you choose to look at the evidence that influences your thoughts and beliefs.

AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump - I agree is must be nice to have 'certainty' about what you believe in, but I think few people have that really despite appearances - most people have doubts from time to time and it is another one of those 'choices' that I mentioned about what to do with them! Ignore them or acknowledge them, give into them or look at how your religion can answer them. Muslims seem to have much more support from friends and family than Christians do (English Christians at least) which I think must help them to present a more united front... Doubt in a Christian is welcomed in our scoiety and seen as the fashionable thing, yet I imagine doubt in a Muslim would be frowned upon!
Regarding the praise, worship and glory thing, I actually think that is more for us than it is for God! I don't think God is too bothered whether we praise him or not - he just wants us to get on with living our lives in the way he meant us to. However, for most people I think attending Mass of whatever is a celebration of their faith and of what they are. Generally if you believe in something and are passionate about it (and religion is the most important thing!) you want to celebrate it in some way.
Just my thoughts anyway...!

But what is the "evidence" showing there is a god, and why does it show that there is one particular god rather than any other?

the Invisible Floating Giant Pink Gerbil isn't real?

DD sings in the local CofE choir. I am not a member of the faith, and yet they are always incredibly welcoming and warm towards me. They really don't mind that I don't believe, nor do they mind that I don't go regularly, they are just friendly and nice when I do turn up. There doesn't seem to be any judgement one way or the other.

Next he'll be telling us there's no such thing as the Flying Spaghetti Monster

he can't debunk that one, I've seen it.

Unquietdad - the evidence is everything that exists! Whether you choose to see it as evidence of God or not is up to you...

Also I think it is good to be 'open-minded' to the existence of anything unless it has been proved not to be real... perhaps even pink gerbils and flying spaghetti monsters (although they do not have much relevance to me so I don't think too much about them!) There is nothing wrong in being open minded - it is closed mindedness that is dangerous.

How about closed mindedness to the idea that there may not be anyone out there?

Can you not see Mersam that to a lot of people the jump from stuff exists to stuff
exists so it must have been created by a supernatural god is not a credible position. it is not a wilful desire to deliberately
be contrary.

How to you prove anything not to be real?

It is impossible to prove negative existence (drummed into me at Uni).

I wanted Mersmam to think about that jux

Alice - I think that closed mindedness to anything is probably a bad thing so yes, I am open minded to the idea that there might not be anyone out there. The trouble is I don't think it is possible to prove whether there is or there is not, so rather than just sit on the fence I decide for many reasons to believe that there is.
Interregnum - I never said anything about it being a desire to be contrary! I simply think it's a choice that you make - you can choose to think that stuff is created by God or you can choose not to believe that. Personally I think the universe has some kind of structure and order to it and it seems logical to me that it was created that way.
As I said above you cannot prove anything not to be real - and furthermore why would you want to? What exactly would be gained by PROVING that God wasn't real?