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Original poster

Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

902 replies

Woolmark · 20/11/2013 19:57

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

OP posts:
capsium · 01/12/2013 17:51

That is not my primary experience, as a Christian, within my relationship with God, though msmiggins. Faith is more important to me.

I can only speak personally.

BackOnlyBriefly · 01/12/2013 17:51

capsium ah do you mean the physical brain? I took that to be part of the body anyway.

This is hard to express clearly because as far as I'm concerned 'mind' is software running on a brain which is more or less a computer. It can slow down and work badly if the physical brain is knackered or the software can become corrupted. Once corrupted that part is lost forever.

But presumably religious people think the bit of you doing the thinking and remembering is the soul and can't be harmed by any force on earth. Otherwise people shot in the head couldn't go to heaven.

Are we saying that the bit of you that does the thinking and remembering goes to heaven? Will you still be you. Will you still have the same favorite song and memories?

capsium · 01/12/2013 17:58

Hmm, back. Yes probably talking about the physical brain, I think. How you get mind from physiology is elusive to my understanding. Going with your software analogy I think being refreshed by reading the Bible and though revelation from the Holy Spirit is like updates. Pre Salvation I view the software as corrupted.

I think we'll still have memories.

sandfrog · 01/12/2013 18:14

If you haven't prayed the Lords Prayer mrsmiggins then how exactly can you know whether people are numb and comfortable, or feeling, thinking and being challenged? And if you have ever prayed it, then that still doesn't mean how you felt was the same as others do.

You said you felt nothing when your sister prayed with you. That's quite normal. It's not all about the warm and fuzzy feelings - they may not be there at all, but it doesn't mean God isn't there.

capsium · 01/12/2013 18:17

^ corrupted through imperfections being passed down, traumatic experiences, disease, incorrect teaching, bitterness, fear and hurts etc etc

headinhands · 01/12/2013 18:29

Ah so the revelations are like software updates. Hmm, why does god send different and contradictory updates to his followers computers ie 'god doesn't mind homosexuality v3.1, or 'god does mind homosexuality v3.1' don't forget, in the small print he says the other version is counterfeit so everyone thinks their version is right and direct from god and that the people who have the version are wrong. Why not just sound out the same version.

Can you tell me one bit of information you got from a software update that I couldn't get secularly? Or is all the information just about doctrine.

Italiangreyhound · 01/12/2013 18:44

Back when I talk of mind I was not talking of the physical brain but of the thoughts, memories etc. For someone with dementia those memories, some at least are gone. I like to think in heaven that we will have a renewed mind, or at least that those things that are part of our spirit will contain our memories. In heaven I will know those I loved on earth, I think I will recognise people etc. So in that sense that part of mind must be sustained or continue. So I guess the mind, body spirit thing is more complicated, yikes! I know we get a new body, (believe I mean) and our spirit goes to heaven so the mind bit is something I would equate more with the spirit, maybe there are only really two bits and what we sometimes call mind is actually spirit, that bit that makes you truly you. Sorry for the messy thinking, I have not pondered it really before!

the bit I was asking about was what people who believe in soul and spirit felt was different about them.

capsium · 01/12/2013 18:58

Hmm, why does god send different and contradictory updates to his followers computers

Could just be two separate parts of a bigger picture or one of the contractions is not an update but a virus.

Can you tell me one bit of information you got from a software update that I couldn't get secularly? Or is all the information just about doctrine

I think it goes beyond doctrine in that it affects a person so deeply it is experiential. As for the secular part, I don't know I have not attempted to get the 'updates' in a more secular manner.

capsium · 01/12/2013 19:02

soul - I think is derived from psyche and can be wrong (still) before being fully renewed.

Spirit - This is the part that is completely right with God at the point of Salvation and Saved. It is joined to the God's Holy Spirit, who knows all things (that would include our memories and knowledge of us.)

headinhands · 01/12/2013 19:05

Ah well the latest troubleshooting guide says that your update is actually a virus. Best uninstall.

capsium · 01/12/2013 19:06

head not spiritual updates anyway. Thinking about reading matter and my understanding of it generally has been more easy going since I became a committed Christian. That probably does not mean very much to you but you don't know what I was like before!

capsium · 01/12/2013 19:07

head What guide are you using?

headinhands · 01/12/2013 19:17

The real one

headinhands · 01/12/2013 19:18

I know it's the real one because god told me it was.

capsium · 01/12/2013 19:29

But you said you don't believe in god, head Confused

headinhands · 01/12/2013 19:47

It doesn't matter, I know the script off by heart. ;)

capsium · 01/12/2013 20:00

But play acting is not real life head.

capsium · 01/12/2013 20:01

I'm not acting.

sandfrog · 01/12/2013 20:15

why does god send different and contradictory updates to his followers computers

He doesn't, but people are fallible and so don't always get God's messages right. That's what the Bible shows, it shows people trying to reach God but failing, so God has to come to us in the form of Jesus. And I don't think Jesus contradicts himself anywhere.

If you take tiny verses out of context then yes they contradict each other, so that's why it's important to look at the overall story of the Bible, rather than taking every little piece individually, literally and out of context (the fundamentalist way).

Italiangreyhound · 01/12/2013 20:44

Capsicum how lovely soul ... is joined to the God's Holy Spirit, who knows all things (that would include our memories and knowledge of us.) That sounds lovely.

Italiangreyhound · 01/12/2013 20:54

msmiggins I'm sorry when your sister prayed for you that you did not feel anything. I mean that. For me faith is very important and I am honestly not saying this in any patronising or unkind way. I genuinely hope you find God, I really believe he is there for you. Please take this in the spirit it is intended. Smile

headinhands · 01/12/2013 21:30

One for you capsium m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25156510

capsium · 01/12/2013 21:39

Thanks head interesting isn't it? New Scientist has had a few articles About epigenetics, gene expression passing down the generations.

capsium · 01/12/2013 21:43

If you read the stuff in the OT concerning sins being revisited...freaky!

Thank God for Redemption through Christ... Grin

msmiggins · 02/12/2013 06:51

Italiangreyhound - I appreciate your motives, but I have no desire to find god. It's a cardboard ship.
I am at ease with my life and have a robust spirituality which needs no false deities.
In my city thousands of women were burned, drowned and tortured in the name of christianity. That's not a group I wish to asscociate with.