John 3v16-18

[haram]

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

These are very delightful verses but also very serious. Any thoughts or comments out there?

what are your thoughts haram, how are they delightful and serious?

i better not get started !

I'll get started

basically this means to me that anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God will go to hell.

I don't think that God would set things up that way because it would be unfair on anyone who lived before 0 AD and on anyone who had not heard of christianity after this time.

I like this bit "For God so loved the world" but after that I am put off. It implies that most people will go to hell and I don't believe there is such a place.

Another interpretation is that Jesus showed humans that it was possible to live in an "enlightened" way and those who follow his example will be "saved" from suffering on Earth.

don´t you want to try for 7 posts in a row Ruty

The passage makes more sense to me in modern day terms, when you change the word God to George Bush Senior. But either way for me it smacks of fear tatics.

Haram did you change your name for this thread, and are you a Christian?

i've got my fist in my mouth paps. oh that sounds sort of rude.

the things man does to man by inventing godheads and giving reasons for intolerance and hatred .. well they're condemned anyway aren't they?

Interesting first post.

ladysherlock there's alot about John [written 100AD] and about the power of metaphor and simile on the athiest post. I just think its a bit repetitive for me, and you might too, so its best if i don;t say too much.

you fist fell out Ruty...

[agonised muffled sound]

Ruty

I meant Haram was a first poster

not nesaccarily (can anyone spell that word??!!) about hell. maybe it means that u r condemned because u don't know of jesus as a saviour?

bugger .. poor ol' mahatma ghandi

For those that can't get to grips with all the thou's and therefore's

here's the translation from the Contemporary English Version.

God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die. 17God did not send his Son into the world to condemn its people. He sent him to save them! 18No one who has faith in God's Son will be condemned. But everyone who doesn't have faith in him has already been condemned for not having faith in God's only Son.

This version is from "the message" translation

This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. 17God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. 18Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.

Now - as it happens I do believe in hell. But if you read both of these passages it doesn't say anything about hell - it's talking about "eternal" (everlasting) life, and mortal life.

So if you don't believe you die, and if you do believe you go to heaven and spend all eternity stewing over all your bad deeds, without a hope of changing or putting it all behind you, on an extremely overcrowded earth, surrounded by the most ghastly people, and possibly in a state of aged decay yourself. Ooh, no ta!

lol aloha - I'd LOVE to debate more on this - but I just wanted to give some more modern translations for those that don't like their thou's and therefore's.

I got up at 10.30am yesterday morning - worked all night, went to bed at 8.10am this morning, got up at 1.20 this afternoon - and am working again tomorrow night - so too tired.

but just like to add - I'd rather sit in paradise for ever than rot in the ground

lol Twiglett!
Yes Sherlock it was Harams first post

HRHQoQ, Spirit is everlasting, alot of different beliefs, spiritual ways affirm to that. But it has been interpreted as condemnation = hell though, I am unsure of other options open to the condemned within Christianity.

Depends how you define paradise,eh?

well you see papillon - there are what I would term as 'fluffy' Christians who like to believe in Heaven - but don't believe in hell.

Must go - boys need putting to bed didn't realise the time!

I had to break it to the girls on the way to church on Sunday that the reason daddy wasn't coming was that he didn't believe in God.

dd2 (3) looked shocked and then said 'well if god comes round to our house, daddy better hide'

LOL enid

(I did tell her that God would be totally fine about it and she wasn't to worry)

And anyway, presumably he knows already?

yes and he's still here (dh that is)

although married to me so maybe that is his punishment