John 3v16-18

[haram]

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

These are very delightful verses but also very serious. Any thoughts or comments out there?

Yes what is paradise anyway? Perhaps due to crowding in heaven we would all be hooked up like in the Matrix, and feed surreal dreams of our own personal paradise.

HRHQoQ are there many fluffy Christians though! And are they not in danger of condemnation for being fluffy. Hanging out with more devoted Christians at a point in my life kind of hinted at condemnation at lesser Christian attitudes! (note I put exclamation marks instead of question marks, seeing as your putting the kids to bed )

paradise/heaven is an eternity spent with God. Not to stew over all the bad deeds that we have done but to live in union with a Heavenly Father who loves us.

Hell is life without God.

I believe for those who have never heard of God and have never been given that chance to recieve him as Heavenly Father that they will be given a chance to do that after death.

For me i know where i would rather be

Papillon - I'm reasonably "liberal" as Christians comes - and yes - quite frankly there ARE fluffy Christians, just like there are probably "fluffy" jews, hindu's, muslims, sikh's etc etc - those who like to think of themselves as that particular religion, but in actually fact make as many excuses as possible why they don't believe key 'bits' of their faith

If there was a hell, wouldn't the people in heaven feel desperately sorry for the people in hell and wouldn't that make the heaven experience imperfect. Maybe I am over simplifying.

I think it is very unlikely that any religion has all the doctrine exactly right. Maybe the "fluffy" christians are closer to the truth than some less fluffy ones.

I have to say, Heaven sounds dreadfully boring. And for all eternity? Oh, the horror!
And yes, if your children were in hell (or whatever the rc - religiously correct - term is these days), how would you enjoy your heaven? I've asked that before, but nobody seems to have an answer.

DH just suggested that if heaven is indeed truly filled with the kind of christians who bang on about it in the certain knowledge that they are bound to end up there, then he is happy to go to hell.

Plenty of evidence here to support life forever on a paradise earth here .

Am I the only one who reads the double entendre in that?

Haram - interesting choice of posting name for such a question.

Ah yes, Paradise Earth. Now, will someone tell me how everybody who ever lived is going to fit on our fairly small planet. And in what shape will we be? The same age as when we died, or an eternally nubile 25? Will we be able to have children? If not, won't that be a bit grim? And if so, where on earth are we going to put them? I just cannot for the life of me see how this is going to work.
And what on earth will we do all day?

I am dying to know!

And if Paradise is earth, where are all us unbelievers going? or do we just die?

Personally I liked the George Bush similarity - fear tactics do work best on the ill informed and what better way to ensure comlpliance with a set of (quite reasonable - and now modern day) rules than using fear of an unknown.

I just like the juxstaposition of this thread with "what do you do with your rabbits in winter". Mumsnet is so diverse!
Personally I prefer the older wording, I am an aetheist now, but was brought up on the RSV, and just find the language more poetic (language like "one of a kind" for me, just doesn't fit in a religious context). I do find it interesting to see the many subtle (and some unsubtle) differences in all the Bible versions.

The world won't be allowed to become over populated God promises to 'open his hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing.'?Psalm 145:16, so I would have any worries about whether to be bored or not.

Sounds much more fun to be on the earth with the animals, plants and other people than floating about on a cloud with a harp.

another thought provoking article

ah sorry Lady sherlock. Put ds to bed at eight, fell asleep with him, just woke up and eating cold supper dh made[whp has meanwhile gone to bed ] Really have to curtail my use of Mumsnet...

Inthecloset, I was thinking the same thing as eeenymeeny since when I was a Witness I think Matthew 5:14-16 was used more often than I could count.

I've explained before why I use the name "Inthecloset" in these sort of discussions and can't really be bothered explaining again as it is not very exciting to be honest.

Also if you knew me in real life you would find I wouldn't hide the fact that I am a JW from you but you would also form your opinions about me based on far more than a few words appearing on a computer screen.

Could those who believe in the heaven / hell thing explain exactly to me what happens to devout muslims, jew, hindus, ba'athists etc who spend their lives in devotion and good deeds but refuse to accept Jesus as messiah?

do you truly believe, if there is such an afterlife punishment that they are bound automatically for hell?

If there was a heaven and a hell with some people in each then to coin a phrase "what would Jesus do?"

He would be in Hell supporting the suffering souls and any Christian worth their salt would go with him. Heaven would be empty unless Hell was empty.

Myths about Death

Hellfire

The word "condemn" is enough to put me off this. Fear is used so much in religon, it makes me very cross! People can lead good, kind and fulfilling lives without having a particular religon. Scare tactics dont cut with me. If people want to share their faith, then lead by example. Don't judge, pity, scare people into believing. Live a good life and the world would be a better place! Sorry, sermon over.