Elderly man made my children feel uncomfortable

[NeedyLimeMember]

Yesterday I visited my Grandma in the care home, with my two primary school aged daughters and my brother While we were there we had to wait in the corridor for a couple of minutes, during which an elderly man approached us and was talking to my children. He was very friendly and meant no harm, but it made my daughters feel uncomfortable. I interacted with him, so the girls didn't feel they needed to talk to him (not that they would - they are quite shy.) One of my girls was stood in front of me and I had my arm over her shoulder/chest holding her close and when the man got a little to close, or at one point kissed his fingers and went to touch her cheek, I discretely blocked him with my hand. My other daughter was further back and next to her Uncle.
I left feeling unsure whether I had done the right thing, because the last thing I want to do is normalise staying a situation that made them feel uncomfortable, just to appease an old man. But the alternative would have been rude and unkind as I'm sure there was no ill intent. We has a conversation when we got home about listening to their body if they feel uncomfortable especially due to a man, and it being ok to step back from someone and say 'you're making me feel uncomfortable.' But in this situation that wasn't how I handled it - I'm not necessarily thinking I did the wrong thing but I really want them to be able to advocate for themselves in a situation where someone crosses a boundary. I wondered what people's thoughts are on dealing with these kind of situations and conversations?

Thank you - I agree and a your second paragraph has really given me food for thought.

So they can't see their relative? Not fair at all.
OP hasn't been unpleasant about the gent, she's merely asking for advice on how to handle such a situation. It's quite obvious the gent has some kind of age related condition.

I think it's both disinhibited and affectionate - wanting an innocent interaction with children but not understanding that it's not appropriate to approach complete strangers in an overly familiar way.

My MIL had always loved children and was a spectacular grandma. One of the first signs that something was wrong, was when she started either going up to women with babiesin that overly familiar way, or just making a fuss of babies and toddlers for too long and making the mothers uncomfortable. We often had to intervene gently and distract her.

I'm certain that she'd have responded to your children in a similar way to this man @NeedyLimeMember .

I think the fact thst he kissed his fingers and then planned to touch their faces with his fingers shows an awareness that actually kissing them was inappropriate.

I work in care have for decades. I think maybe a conversation with your girls about how the adults who live there are vulnerable adults. The elderly are very affectionate with children they do gravitate towards them. I take mine to visit those who have become almost family and they give them cuddles and kisses on the cheek and they consider them almost like grandparents. Because I have had conversations with them and they understand they don’t feel uncomfortable. I don’t think not taking them is necessary they first answer. Xx

Sorry this happened OP. An elderly man put his entire hand all over my little girls face when she was a tiny baby in her pram and I got absolutely crucified on MN for being upset that it had happened and telling him he had no right to do that and should keep his hands to himself. Apparently I ‘ruined his day’ and ‘upset a poor old elderly man’ which made me a heinous individual. I’m not saying he was a sexual predator. I was making the point that he had no right to touch my baby. People seem to lose their senses when it comes to the elderly - they can still be capable of hurting other people. They’re not all cute old dears.

The setting here is important. It's a care home, ie people living there require care either because of physical failings or early/more advanced dementia due to old age. Is this sometimes uncomfortable? Yes, even for adults that are not used to the environment. Gender doesn't come so much into it. I assume you wouldn't let your kids wander around there themselves, so you were there and it's not a problem. I saw these kinds of encounters as teaching opportunities for my kids to be kind and understanding. Primary school age is old enough to get relevant explanations.

This. It affects men and women. Also women particularly want to touch children, not in a pervy way, but because they remember their child bearing years.

you’re overthinking it you handled it perfectly

You're wrong, they absolutely do! I have worked with many male support workers who are spoken inappropriately too or groped by female patients with dementia, some also masturbate openly in front of everybody. Dementia is a cruel disease that completely takes a person's inhibitions away. Stop turning this into men vs women.

My daughter took her newborn to visit my mother in a dementia care home. At the sight of a babe in arms three or four women started approaching like zombies. Care workers intervened and nothing bad happened but I felt sorry for them, some inner memories triggered by the sight of a baby. My mother enjoyed the visit but didn't know who my daughter was. I had told her she had had her third child and she cried because in my mother's mind my daughter was still a little girl. It's a horrendous disease but not all attraction to children is sexual just people re-living happy memories of their own children.

Is it perhaps an opportunity to help her understand that some people behave in odd what’s that we don’t understand and that might make us uncomfortable but we still need to be kind. Possibly also to start to understand that older people need support not treated as a different species.

I don’t get the “always listen to your body when it’s uncomfortable” crap. If I did, I’d never have achieved some of the things I’m most proud off. To develop and grow we need to live at the edge of our comfort zone

I'm glad that's working out for you. I've also pushed myself out of my comfort zone many times and achieved lots of things as a result. On the flip side, I've also stayed in some very unsafe situations and been harmed as a result, due to being overly concerned about being 'nice' or not offending someone so it's important for me to teach my children this kind of listening to their body "crap" to try and prevent them going through similar.

But this scenario also warrants a compassionate response towards someone who has no intention to cause discomfort. I think it's a nuance that is beyond the understanding of 5-7 year olds.

I think the message should be simple - that their safety is the most important thing and if they are not with a trusted adult - you, their teacher etc. they should go and find one straight away if ever someone makes them feel scared or uncomfortable, this is more important than being kind or polite.

If they are with a trusted adult, the trusted adult will look after them, and they should never be afraid to tell that adult if they are feeling scared or uncomfortable.

Please don't listen to posters who say you should deny your children and their grandma the joy of seeing one another - you have handled this really well and your children have nothing to worry about with you to take care of them.

As someone who was taken to visit ‘grandma’ in a care home every week as an under 10 I can honestly say it left me utterly traumatised. I was terrified every single time. Now, I am autistic which obviously wasn’t known in the 70s/80s when this happened but it did affect my ability to understand and communicate my fears. Not one of the adults considered how I felt and they all thought they were doing a good thing by maintaining my relationship with grandma. I was shit scared of grandma, she wasn’t grandma anymore but a strange version of grandma. I had zero understanding of her condition. I was scared shitless walking down the corridors to get to her room because of interactions with other residents, not even boundary crossing but just plain weird and as a child I didn’t know what to do or say. The adults around me would tell me ‘that’s Meg, she used to be a teacher’ as if that helped me process why Meg was behaving oddly. It left me with lifelong trauma and when my parent was placed in a home I had to get myself into therapy to be able to visit, which I only did a handful of times over the 6 months she was there. I’m not saying this is how your kids will feel but it is worth considering the wider impact on them and whether grandma is actually still grandma to them.

Not defending him but he probably doesn't know what planet he's on. Report the incident to the care home.

My uptight sister became very disinhibited with dementia. Dementia doesn't care what age/sex/orientation you are. It's a bloody horrible disease.

I'm so sorry to hear this ❤️

Yes it is, there are many reasons for behaviour changes. It's sad that men are thought of as being perry if they try and touch your face but a woman doing similar is just a sweet old granny.

Awful comment, elderly people in care homes very rarely see children so they will always get attention by mostly well meaning people with dementia. Nothing he did was pervy he was very likely well meaning. I’ve worked in enough care homes to have seen lots and lots of elderly women with dementia display over sexualised behaviour when they would never have been like this prior to diagnosis so your comment is not valid

@nevergonnagivemeup

oh yes they do, there’s a complete nymphomaniac at my local care home, propositions everything in trousers, removes clothes in public…. Dementia is cruel, apparently she was very straight laced before (I’ve met her family, they try to laugh as it’s better than crying)

A former head nurse at the local hospital, now in her 80's with dementia, took down her trousers and underwear, in the local Hardware store, and exposed herself to everybody.

It's never the wrong thing to protect your children from behaviour they find upsetting.
You can talk to them about why people in the home might behave in ways that make them uncomfortable and understand why.

I know we've become a society where we try to analyse and interpret every interaction as ill meant and feared.

My reaction to this is simply an elderly man with dementia most likely remembering his own children/GC and a respectful kiss on finger and to cheek. He didn't lean in to kiss her!

Of course little ones may be a bit scared as it's from a stranger, so that's when we as parents explain. It's a moment, which is forgotten about quickly, it's parents who overthink it.

I remember thinking oh no, DC looked uncomfortable then asked later if they were OK and they said what are you talking about???

The way you dealt with it was fine. Have a chat with the staff to work out how you can avoid it happening again, eg maybe there's a private room you can wait in in future or similar.