Elderly man made my children feel uncomfortable

[NeedyLimeMember]

Yesterday I visited my Grandma in the care home, with my two primary school aged daughters and my brother While we were there we had to wait in the corridor for a couple of minutes, during which an elderly man approached us and was talking to my children. He was very friendly and meant no harm, but it made my daughters feel uncomfortable. I interacted with him, so the girls didn't feel they needed to talk to him (not that they would - they are quite shy.) One of my girls was stood in front of me and I had my arm over her shoulder/chest holding her close and when the man got a little to close, or at one point kissed his fingers and went to touch her cheek, I discretely blocked him with my hand. My other daughter was further back and next to her Uncle.
I left feeling unsure whether I had done the right thing, because the last thing I want to do is normalise staying a situation that made them feel uncomfortable, just to appease an old man. But the alternative would have been rude and unkind as I'm sure there was no ill intent. We has a conversation when we got home about listening to their body if they feel uncomfortable especially due to a man, and it being ok to step back from someone and say 'you're making me feel uncomfortable.' But in this situation that wasn't how I handled it - I'm not necessarily thinking I did the wrong thing but I really want them to be able to advocate for themselves in a situation where someone crosses a boundary. I wondered what people's thoughts are on dealing with these kind of situations and conversations?

What an idiotic comment

Oh don't fucking shut up . Ignorant comment m

Clearly you have no experience of seeing someone you know with dementia/altzheimers. Try to think more kindly - you’ll be old one day. OP handled it well.

I don't think you should stop taking your children to see their grandma, it must bring her a great deal of joy.

Obviously you are already vigilant and I think you will know if it's needed to move your children away from a potentially uncomfortable or harmful situation. In their grandma's room they will be fine, but if you have to stand outside while her personal care is happening, perhaps mentally plan where you could move to if it was necessary.

Lots of people here are going on about this man being 'pervy' and 'sexually disinhibited' but I'm struggling to see anything he's done here that falls into either of those categories, unless the OP has missed a lot out of her post.

The kids were uncomfortable - OK, but that doesn't mean he's a pervert.
He stood too close - again, might mean he lacks social awareness but doesn't mean he's a pervert.
He kissed his fingers and went to touch a child's face - that used to be a really normal thing to do to babies and children. Obviously if your child doesn't like it, that's fine and they don't have to let someone do it, of course. But it's not sexualised or 'pervy'. It's just something that people used to do to cute kids, like pinching a baby's cheek or 'stealing' a child's nose.

It's fine to tell your children that if they're not comfortable they don't have to engage. But I think describing and elderly man in a care home who very likely has at least some form of dementia and just likes talking to little kids as being 'pervy' or 'sexually disinhibited' is a quite a leap.

A lot of care home residents miss seeing children around. My nan lived in retirement flats and used to moan that she didn't see children running around and like she did when she lived in a normal block of flats.

Of course that isn't your kids' problem and they shouldn't feel they have to put up with behaviour that makes them uncomfortable but equally I'm not sure where people are getting 'sexually disinhibited pervert' from?

When my oldest was a baby we took him into the care home to see his great gran on Christmas Eve. All the residents lit up around him and we had a lovely afternoon. As I was leaving the nurse opened the security door and as I was through I felt a tug and turned round to a woman holding on to his leg with all her might screaming ‘she is stealing my baby, give me back my baby you bitch, get my baby’ at the top of her lungs.
My point of that story being might be a conversation about care homes and what the people in them are going through might have been better placed in your situation

When you say secure do you mean mental health act type of secure unit or secure as in locked door to prevent people from leaving with out support? Personally I think it’s worth pointing out to the home manager that nobody should be asked to wait in the corridor unsupervised but taken to a family room due to the risk these types of scenarios present for all parties.

Poor bloke. Probably had dementia. Leave your kids at home next time.

A relative was in a care home and was found to have behaved inappropriately - seems the Parkinson medication he was on can cause sexual behaviour or risky behaviour - no one had told us, no one had told the staff (whom you would think would have come across this) and he was held fully responsible - he also had dementia so was unaware of the panic.

But it's bad that no one is informed of the risks. Our wonderful NHS

If he is a resident then of course he isn’t well enough to be in his own home for whatever reason. Many have dementia. This has happened to me a couple of times with my children (both men and women being inappropriate by today’s /
our standards) I really didn’t give it much thought, you’re entering their home so I don’t think it warrants any sort of upset on your part. Either don’t take children or call ahead and ask to see your relative in their own room and head straight there without interacting with anyone.

Yes I think a lot of people have missed the point of my post. There was nothing sexual or perverted about it. My concern was more how do I teach my young children to listen to their gut and feel confident in speaking their mind and placing a boundary when they feel uncomfortable, while also acknowledging that in this situation it was safe and kind to engage with the gentleman.

I think you handled it well, OP. Part of the conversation we need to have with our daughters is that sometimes the people who make us feel uncomfortable genuinely don't intend to - they may have dementia, be from a different culture or have grown up at a time when it was perfectly acceptable to pinch the cheeks of random children. Regardless, your daughter STILL has the right to her boundaries, but maybe you could help her script some responses for these situations.

Dementia is very hard. My ex developed it in her early 50s, and now doesn't recognise us at all. Last time our teenage dd visited her, she screamed 'You look like a cunt' at her and threatened to shank her. Helping our kids have both boundaries and understanding for this has been quite tough.

Yes I hear your point. And I can imagine that was quite distressing for you, even with the understanding that this lady was unwell.
The girls understand that people who are elderly or unwell might act unusually or say strange things and have seen this with my Grandma and other family members. I think I was just aware of an internal conflict between being kind/polite and my childrens' comfort.

Yes I think you're right that the difference is intent. And although small children won't always be able to gauge whether something is intended to cause discomfort or harm, having the conversations with develop this.
I'm sorry you and your daughter have had to experience this, especially when your ex was so young. Xx

Yes I'm sure he did. We were polite and engaged with him - we weren't in any way rude. I could leave my kids at home, but my Grandma so enjoys seeing them and I want them to have a relationship with her for as long as they can.

Yes I did wonder if I had done the right thing, because I would want to model to my daughters that if a man makes you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to be polite or sacrifice your own feeling of safety to appease him. I could see they felt very uncomfortable and I want to teach them to listen to and not suppress this feeling. But this scenario also warrants a compassionate response towards someone who has no intention to cause discomfort. I think it's a nuance that is beyond the understanding of 5-7 year olds.

No - it's the latter. It's a home that provides nursing and care provision. The unit my grandma on is mostly for those with dementia but don't need as much physical care. You need a key code to enter and leave but visitors have access to these.
I would imagine the home have done all the relevant risk assessments - I obviously wouldn't leave my children there unsupervised and any residents who pose a risk have 1-1 supervision. This particular resident obviously isn't deemed a risk and I have no reason to dispute that. But for young children, having a stranger come up and start taking to them was uncomfortable for them and as much as I want to teach them kindness and understanding, I also want them to be assertive in situations where they feel uncomfortable.

It may be disinhibited behaviour - but it may also be affection? A lot of people really miss having contact with children and although it is understandable and right that we think about children having body autonomy, its also a real shame that we have got to the point in society where we have to have so many rules about contact. I am not saying that they should not be there, but it is sad. When I worked in Asia, the kids I worked with would climb all over adults, and come for hugs regularly and it was lovely. Similarly, the little girl next door just ran over and gave me a spontaneous hug early when I saw her and her dad coming back from school earlier. When I was growing up, someone elses parent might give you a hug if they saw you and it was perfectly innocent and nice. It is a shame we have lost this.

Oh believe me, dementia mames women sexually disinhibited as well!

I think it's both disinhibited and affectionate - wanting an innocent interaction with children but not understanding that it's not appropriate to approach complete strangers in an overly familiar way.

I hear you - I hug some of my closest friends' children. But unfortunately there are times when it wasn't innocent and it lead to so many children growing up not understanding consent and not being able to say 'no thank you' or 'back off' for fear of being rude.

Years ago i live next door to a man in his late 70s he was wonderful he really was.
He had a stroke and after that dementia set in, he went from hi good morning to wanting to date me, and very other woman he saw, he was put in a home a few weeks after he was caught cleaning his windows naked.

Fast forward 6 year, i moved to a new home met my then new neighbour, she was lovely 2 year on something changed and i couldnt put my finger on it, then i knew when she was calling me caroline not my name and why i was fucking her husband.

Her husband passed away 15 year ago she live alone.
Following day her daughter came to me and told me she was sorry but her mum was not well thanks to door cam it was all filmed.
She then only knew me as caroline and hated me and said the most filthy things to me, she was put in a home a year ago, now someone else is in her flat living their life.

Life can change in seconds.

I would talk to them about it, tell them that if they are uncomfortable with someone touching them, even if it is a safe touch they can step away and say “I don’t like that”. That’s all I would say to be honest.

assuming they know about safe touch and unsafe touch from school.

I agree. We need to teach children about safety because this is paramount. However, it is a shame that so many assumptions are that there is a sexual or nefarious reason for an interaction when actually, most people are perfectly nice and good and want nothing but the best for children, all children. In earlier times, children really were raised by the village or tribe and its hardwired into us to care for little ones. But on MN you regularly see posts fretting about peoples intention towards their children and the replies can feel somewhat hysterical at times. Dont get me wrong, 1 pedophile in the world is 1 too much and we must be careful. But most people are harmless and have good intentions and its a shame that gets lost sometimes.

Not true. My best friends mum became very letchy and inappropriate as her dementia worsened, it was very sad.

I think you acted protectively with your DC without being rude, which is absolutely fine. I tell my DD it’s important to keep your own boundaries but that might mean moving away from someone, or changing the conversation, rather than telling someone they’re making you feel uncomfortable. Precisely because there may be behaviours that you aren’t comfortable with, or a person you don’t feel comfortable with for no particular reason, or they’re doing something without any intention of harm. Yes sometimes it’s important to tell someone to back off, but it’s rarely my first approach. Aside from anything else, if he was a risk, naming the discomfort may make him escalate things which could put them at risk of harm.

Theres a whole range of skills we draw on to deal with discomfort or someone pushing our boundaries, naming that is only one way and not always the best/safest way.