Would you be happy to let a son or daughter of yours join the armed forces?

[tigermoth]

My dh joined the navy when he was 16 partly as the result of an ultimatum issued by his father.

My son is 8 years. I just cannot imagine letting him join the navy in another 8 years time, even if he wanted to. And seeing pictures today of 18 year olds in chemical warfare gear... boys just 10 years older that my son. My husband says it's policy to put the youngsters in least danger, but I'm sure that's not much comfort to their parents.

If my son wanted to join the forces when he leaves school, I think I'd do all in my power to dissuade him. I just cannot get my head round the idea that you create a life, that child grows and then goes on to be trained in how to kill others. Is that naive of me? Would you encourage your son or daughter if they wanted to join the forces?

Is this specifically about the armed forces or more a question of your child doing something that you're not happy with. At the moment I'm sure that most of us would not be happy with having our child in a life threatening situation such as working for the armed forces etc, however there are other areas too that are dangerous. At 16 I'm fairly certain that I would not want my dd to rush into anything as I wouldn't think she had grown up enough to make such decisions. However by the time she was 24 say, I hope that I would have the strength to listen, debate, advise and in the end support. She's only 3 at the moment so I've a long time to go and couldn't say now how I'd behave then. I do know that I want her to feel happy with the course of her life when she gets to say 35.

If eith ds or dd decided this was their chosen career then I would back them all the way, as I would if they wanted to be a policeman, fireman, doctor, postman or whatever, I would offer them my opinion and, hopefully, help them make the right decision for them but, at the end of the day, their life is just that - their life.

That's true, jaybee. It is their life, so ultimately it is their decision, but I don't think I'd actually encourage a 16 or even an 18 year old to make that decision. At the very least I'd try and persuade them to wait a few more years. But I'd never be happy about their choice, I'd just keep quiet. I accept that you can't tell a 24 year old what to do.

As Wills says, there are other life threatening careers, but the ones that come to my mind - working on an oil rig, firman, policeman - do not have winning wars, as a principal aim.

You go through childhood telling your children not to hurt others, you punish fighting, you encourge them to share and not be discriminating - how do you reconcile this with encouraging your child to join the forces?

tigermoth, I'm assuming this is specifically an armed forces question, and yes, I would try to dissuade them too...

The trouble is that because we have been "at peace" (ha!) for so long the forces tend to be viewed as a good career move, on-the-job training, get paid while you're at uni, see the world etc and the fact that one of their principal reason for existence is actually to go to other countries and try to kill people kind of gets glossed over (and the fact that you might get killed yourself even more so.)

Janh, do you remember the Not The Nine O'Clock News sketch that said exactly that? It was a p**s take of a tv ad for the army at the time - the ad said something along the lines of "learn to fly planes, travel to exotic places, meet new people etc etc" and NTNON parodied it, adding "and kill 'em." Tigermoth, yes, I would do my best to dissuade my ds from the armed forces, definitely. Who knows whether I'd succeed though?

Tigermoth, NO!

I suppose it depends what alternatives are open to them really ? If my DD wanted to join up I would try to dissaude her - but to be honest I'd rather see her happy in the forces than unhappy elsewhere. Also, if it made the best use of her potential I'd rather see her use it productively.

So - Yes I would if she couldn't find something else that would make her happy.

Not at all

My dp is in the Navy and his father dissuaded him from joining the Marines which is why he joined the Navy. Have just asked him if he would encourage ds to join the services and he said no as its not rewarding anymore especially if you join as a rating. If you join as an officer you get cushy drafts so its not so bad. He said if ds was sure he wanted to join he would advise him to only do 5 years to get the experience. Even when he goes away they don't have that long alongside anymore, they're away for 7 months at a time and then when they do come back into port its only for a short time before they go in and out for months on end. If ds wanted to join the services then dp would recommend the RAF first. The Navy don't treat you with any respect anymore (my dp is a Chief Petty Officer so he's not that low down the rating scale), the majority of the officers treat you like s**t as they just want their next ring and because they went to university they think they know everything, then again that's not just the Navy as my dad (in the gas board) had the same problem with them not wanting to listen to experience). I wouldn't be happy (I was in the Navy) and can think of a lot of other jobs I would rather ds did but at the end of the day it would be ds' decision so I would just want him to be happy (aah an old cliche).

I know I wouldn't like the idea at all and if it came it to I would probably talk them out of it if it was straight from leaving school or at least I'd try to BUT I hope I would resprect their wishes and support them in their discision.
I would find it VERY hard to do though and I hope I wouldn't have to be in that situation.

Megg, I hope you dp is not involved in the Gulf. If he is I hope you are coping well, and have a cyberhug. Dh is is the RAF, the non-coms 'run' the RAF, and highly professional people and get the respect they so richly deserve, on the whole. There are some idiots who don't and they are fools. Dh would never make hat mistake. His life depends on the excellent job they do.

Yes -- I would be content to see them in military, if that's what they wanted.

megg's post made me think of the Navy Lark - CPO Pertwee and all that.

hmb, I wondered if you would turn up here! Interesting to hear how the different services treat people. (Hope your DH is doing OK BTW. Fingers and toes crossed for a swift resolution. I saw a photo recently of what were supposed to be Iraqi squaddies and they all looked to be about 45, knackered and pissed off.)

WWW, I never saw the NTNON sketch (we were abroad at the time and missed it completely) but we have a book with it in - I had forgotten, it is very clever (like the American Express ad with Pamela Thing in a bra offering her boobs to the customer!)

This question is a different issue for those with daughters only - if women ever have to fight in the front lines you might review your opinion?

There are so many other aspects to a life in the forces - surveillance, peace-keeping, nursing, providing essential services etc. - but ultimately it may well be about killing or being killed. If any of your children grow up to consider the forces do make sure they are really aware of that possibility.

Would be very unhappy indeed to think of either of my sons in the armed forces. Certainly wouldn't encourage this and would have a great deal of difficulty being the sort of supportive mum I aspire to be should either of them set their heart on it. I hope I'd try and support them but it would be a big test.

I wouldn't be happy either. It's not the risk as such that worries me (many jobs have a risk) but the things being on the front-line can do to people's minds (particularly if they're young) - for that reason I would object more to the army than to the RAF or the navy. If I have a boy next, we'll leave Spain before he's old enough for the issue of Military Service to arise.

But it does depend on how dd turns out, really. I fully expect her to inherit my fierce independence and dislike of taking orders so I doubt very much that the question will arise.

megg

I wondered about responding to your thread becasue I think it might bore everyone else but just needed to somehow - dh is an army officer and did not go to university and has never got a cushy posting for as long as I can remember - also, remember the army/navy is just like any other organisation - everyone has someone they answer to whether you are a soldier or an experienced officer - your stand sounded a little like sour grapes over something - some officers are complete idiots I agree but so are some soldiers - its all a mixed bag really.

I don't think I would like it, but IF they had made an informed choice and KNEW what they were letting themselves in for, then I would be supportive.
My brother, who was a total waster and was pretty much told not to come back to school as soon as he was allowed to leave, joined the RAF at 19. It has been the making of him and he has turned into a fantastic young man and is a brilliant Dad. Yes, he might have to kill or be killed but he is aware of that, and his conscience is OK about it in a wa mine could never be, and he is happy with the life he has chosen. If my children choose any careers that make them as happy as his has (servicing planes is pretty much his dream job) then I will be happy.
DH, sitting here, says he's rather dd joined the forces than became a lap dancer!

Seahorse I did say the majority so not all officers are included in that. In fact I have known some very nice officers (including Prince Andrew). The only sour grapes we would have would be against dp's old divisional officer who told dp that he should be over his mother's death four months later and he shouldn't be so upset but thats a whole new story and there was quite a lot of other stuff going on with it (including dp's father being an alcoholic and making life very difficult). We have known several officers who came up through the ratings and they have been treated differently because they didn't join as officers so they didn't fit in. The higher up officers are generally a bit more relaxed and have nothing to prove so treat people a bit better. Dp has said he has noticed a change in attitude since he joined up 13 years ago and its not for the better.

DH's son wants to join the army when he finishes high school (he'll be 17 1/2, but his preference is to go in for officer training. If his high school results aren't good enough for that, then he says he will just go in as a general entry. DH's opinion is that it's his son's choice and he will support him if that's what he wants to do. SS also wants to do a degree in computer programming so my guess is that he would probably only stay in for about six years. Given the world's current situation though, I don't think I would be doing it, but ultimately it's up to him.

Seahorse do they teach officers to ask daft questions? Its just that when I was in training we had clear up all the leaves that had fallen from the trees and about three officers came up to ask what we were doing, I mean what did it look like with a bin bag and an armful of leaves? There are so many other stories like that as well, they always seem to ask the questions where the answer is perfectly obvious. Honestly its not getting at officers I just find it quite amusing and wonder if they are taught to ask these sort of questions.

My dad was in the navy (CPO as well megg) and he hated it!! For a brief moment during my final year at University I flirted with joining the RAF. I rang dad to ask hisopinion. He said "no I can't tell you it's your choice it's nothing to do with me" so I said I'd really like his opinion as he;s been in the services blah blah blah. Well talk about opening the floodgates!!! 45 minutes later I said "so you don't think it's a good idea then" If I'd gone for it he woudln't have stood in my way. You have to let your children do what they want after all.

My uncle has worked with Prince Andrew (he's in the fleet air arm) a few times and says he's a real pratt. He said that Prince Charles was lovely though and really good to work with.

I think people like James Hewitt do the reputation of military officers no end of harm. I tend to dislike any officer wearing a signet ring on his little finger! Havenm't met any that haven't been idiots! (- YOu see I always raise the intelligent argument stakes in threads!!)

megg, if an officer asks you a really stupid question like that are you allowed to give them a really rude answer or do you have to say "I am clearing up these leaves, sir/ma'am, and putting them in this binbag, sir/ma'am, because they make the place look untidy, sir/ma'am"?????

janh you count to 5,smile sweetly and then tell them the obvious. It is sooo tempting to say what does it look like! Funny how different people see others differently isn't it jimjams? I've known a few lads who were on Prince Andrew's ship (when he was in charge can't remember the name of the ship) and they say he was quite approachable and fair. After saying that my ex-bil is in the Fleet Air Arm and he says he's a prat as well!

lol megg- Prince Andrew must turn into a pratt when he gets round the airy fairy's! You sound like my dad talking about officers! I remember when I got invited to an officer's dinner and drinks party- he was almost choking!!