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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

fraudulant legal aid claim

85 replies

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:14

what would happen if I didnt declare some savings in an application for legal aid? would I get caught? I have already been to 1 solicitor and was turned down because my savings were too much - is this tracable?

OP posts:

smokinaces · 17/04/2011 22:23

If you have savings you dont need legal aid. Pay for it yourself.

Original poster

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:29

i've posted about this before under a different user name- so you may have read it before; but the reason I dont want to use the money I have is;

the money is not really mine. My dad invested it for my children out of his retirement fund. It is in my name because he had used his ISA allowance. I have lots of debt (thanks to the husband who I am trying to divorce) and a very low income due to part time working until kids are a bit more grown.

OP posts:

smokinaces · 17/04/2011 22:35

You need to create ISAs or trust funds in your childrens names then and move the money. If it is accessible to you, then it would be fraudulant to claim legal aid.

To be fair I dont think you can get legal aid for divorce any more can you?

KatieMiddleton · 17/04/2011 22:39

Well if it's not your money you should have put it in an account for each child with you are the trustee. You can open an account like this at any high street bank or building society.

Original poster

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:41

my dad wants to move the money about- into more high risk investments- he doesnt want the bank/ building society interest rates.

i'm pretty sure you cant have ISAs held in your name if you are a child?

yes you can get legal aid for divorce still

OP posts:

Collaborate · 17/04/2011 22:42

You can still get legal aid for divorce.

If it's been given to you for you to hold for the children then it's not your money, and won't disentitle you to LA.

Original poster

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:42

yes - i know it is fraudulant - I want to know if I will get caught. do they check investments etc?

OP posts:

Dilligaf81 · 17/04/2011 22:43

you can get Isa's for children they started this tax year (from april 6th)

Original poster

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:44

collaborate - the lawyer I saw, said that the accounts would have to be in the childrens names- and as it is, I am not entitled. Do you know different?

OP posts:

KatieMiddleton · 17/04/2011 22:44

Well you can't have it both ways on this occasion. If you're waiting to do something with it putting it into a deposit account in trust for the children is the sensible thing to do until you find the right investment. It keeps everything clear and avoids this sort of problem.

smokinaces · 17/04/2011 22:45

Then you need to create childrens bank accounts for the time being. Put it there until your dad decides what to do with it. But not in your account.

Then problem solved.

I was told legal aid was changing to not cover family situations such as divorce - so you may want to sort this before the changes come in.

You also need to be careful if you are claiming any other form of benefit (e.g. housing) that you should have declared these savings too as well.

KatieMiddleton · 17/04/2011 22:45

Yes they will check. Why not just sort it out?

Original poster

shanzu · 17/04/2011 22:55

Dilligaf81- thanks -thats good news- is that investment ISAs as well as savings ISAs do you know?

OP posts:

Collaborate · 17/04/2011 23:32

If you hold money on trust for another then it's not taken into account. You'd have to be open about it though, and having a trust deed in writing would certainly help, but I guess you don't have that do you?

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 00:03

the girl who I saw, thought she remembered a situation like mine which her colleague had dealt with-and as she remembered, in order to get legal aid a letter was required from the person who invested the money to say thta it had been invested for the children - but when she spoke with her colleague she found out that they had still been turned down for legal aid.

what's a trust deed?

I am going to contact the company tomorrow and see if it can be transferred into the kids names.

If not...does anyone know the answer to my original question ---will i get caught if I make a fraudulant claim? what kind of checks are performed if any?

OP posts:

Collaborate · 18/04/2011 00:08

Why be fraudulent? Be upfront. Tell them it was given to you to hold for someone else. You may have to produce proof of that. I would certainly want to see it. A trust deed could be eg the will by which the cash was bequeathed to someone else with the direction to you to hold on their behalf.

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 00:18

I was up front and was told because of the investment, I was not entitled to legal aid. As I said, the solicitor looked into getting a letter from my dad to say he had invested the money for his grand children but it was in my name as (we thought) it couldnt be in the kids names. We dont have a will as my dad is not dead

OP posts:

KatieMiddleton · 18/04/2011 00:32

I answered you question.

Re the cash now you don't need any fancy trust deeds - the bank will put the money in trust for you.

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 07:25

kate- could you expand a bit? what is the source of your answer? are you a solicitor? how do they check?

what do you mean 'you dont need any fancy trust deed - the bank will put the money in trust for you'? do you mean if i follow your first advice and open a high street bank account? im not going to do that.

OP posts:

TheBossofMe · 18/04/2011 07:45

Well, if you're not going to do it Ie move the money), then you won't get the legal aid. Yes they can find out and yes they can proescute you.

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 09:01

obviously they CAN find out...I am trying to determine how likely that is;

do you know who checks and what they check e.g. do they do random checks or is each application vetted?

how would someone establish thta I did have savings thta I hadnt declared? e.g. is there a national database of savings accounts?

OP posts:

ChristinedePizan · 18/04/2011 09:06

I have no idea but why you want to risk a conviction for fraud when it's fairly easy to sort out (unless of course you're lying) is beyond me.

WillieWaggledagger · 18/04/2011 09:12

can your father invest it elsewhere whilst your divorce is going through?

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 09:40

why would i be lying when Im anonymous on an internet forum?

OP posts:

Original poster

shanzu · 18/04/2011 09:41

the reason I may risk it - is i am not sure (until i check today) whether I am able to move the money - I have a feeling it is locked for 5 years (its a stocks and shares ISA not savings ISA)

OP posts:

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