ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

My AFC was 10-12, which is as good as I’ll probably get at my tender age, so happy with that! I had recently ovulated from my left and lining was 13.4mm. All systems go for stimming early May.

@CailinInUK good luck with starting the next phase, I always find it really difficult to accept and believe that a ‘break’ will be beneficial, when this whole fertility malarkey is a literal race against time and we have it drilled into us that every moth counts - especially i my case being past 40 so it’s totally understandable you’d rather power through and not have a month off.

@VenusStarr I literally drove myself crazy temping and keeping track of heart rates with my pregnancies, it iust adds stress for things that are never quite as accurate and may be influenced by other factors too. Having said that, have you heard about ‘implantation dip’? I don’t think it’s necessarily an exact science or anything, but I heard that a small dip that goes back up again is an actual sign of implantation happening and your graph from the past few days shows that - but I don’t want to give false hope, just something I heard about if you’re temping.

@kerrym87 thinking of you tomorrow and today too as anxiety must be high ❤️ I think I’ll probably end up bottling it and testing 12pt with one of the more sensitive ones, dunno, maybe, depending on symptoms I guess.

@thislittlebird at nearly 43 I got one euploid out of 5 and one inconclusive and your odds are better than mine at 40 so you definitely have a good chance at at least one I reckon.

@Gardenlady543 has the bleeding been slowing? Do you reckon it’ll be ok for me to refuse Lubion past the point of a positive pregnancy test - if it is a positive -? My consultant prescribed it for the whole of the first trimester, but costs are eye watering and there’s absolutely no way I could afford it for that long. Bear in mind I have no known progesterone issues and I’ll also be on two daily 400mg Cyclogest pessaries as day, seems very very extra to me!

Does anybody know the price of Lubion 25mg at ASDA Pharmacy? I heard they’re one of the cheapest for fertility drugs.

I’m having my first intralipd dose, slightly horrified that this big bottle of what’s essentially pure fat is being poured directly into my veins, must be a gazilion calories? Does anybody know if the calories hit your bodies in the same way as If I was eating them?

Hello everybody. Hope you are all ok. Can anybody point me in the direction of any research on the impact of metronidazole on lactobacillus? I would like to make myself comfortable that my good bacteria will not be impacted if I take it. Many thanks

Great news @CailinInUK 👏 hope it all goes smoothly from now.

@IVF22 I'm sorry, I don't know but hoping @Gardenlady543 knows for you

@clhiu I'm my own worst enemy 🙃 checking these things won't change the outcome, and I can't decide if it's helping or making me more obsessive! I have heard of implantation dips, I don't think I've had them before (not noticeably anyway) but I've not temped in all pregnancies either. Part of me wants to see the progress but I know as soon as things start to dip and it's failed I'll feel like crap.
It's nice that you guys are holding hope for me ❤️

My intralipids come in a bag, so don't look as intense as yours! I'm not sure about the calorie intake but definitely have put on weight since starting immune treatment and ivf. But that's over a long period. Just checked in the mirror and feel like moonface is already starting... which I wouldn't mind if I was pregnant. Pretty much had permanent moonface all last year but once I stopped treatment and started at the gym, it did eventually come off. With that and my bloated progesterone belly, feel like it's all been undone!

I've had an apology from the clinic, so I'm happy with that 🙌

@2021ivfagain yes my pH often goes up on antibiotics.

@CailinInUK lol I think I just wanted something annoymous and thought well I kind of like plants. When I told my husband I went with garden lady he said what and some random number like 345 and I was like no 543 actually! I haven't heard of them doing a scan before starting down reg, that's interesting.

Fingers crossed @thislittlebird it's a good amount of blasts so hopefully you get some euploids.

Lol @clhiu when people ask me what intralipids are I say "a shedload of fat" if you are started in Progesteone then you should stay on a stable amount until you can stop, I don't think it will be a good idea to suddenly stop. PIO is cheaper than lubion but more painful as it's straight into the muscle. Oh I can't remember how much a 7 pack of lubion is at Asda it's either £50 or £75ish, if you call them they will give you a price.

I feel like the bleeding slowed and I barely got any overnight and then a load of fresh blood this morning then slowed down again, so I don't know. But I feel I'm working myself up that isn't helping.

I'm just curious about nk cells....I generally thought being too high wasn't great but is too low am issue too? I suppose its about an optimal range....
If this hasn't worked seeing Dr gorgy probably my next port of call as well as liaising with local clinics to see if a partner ship is possible, he said he'd worked with QE in gateshead before which is just over an hour from me so better than 5 hr round trip.
@clhiu it would be interesting to know , sorry I can't help though! Remind me where you're at in treatment I'm sorry I've forgotten x

@CailinInUK
It’s good you can start another stim cycle. If I use clindamycin, I have read it can wipe out all bacteria good and bad. Also, you can become resistant to this after one treatment. I would not be able to put vaginal probiotics back in that quickly due to transfer timing which could expose me to more infections with 0% lactobacillus as opposed to some lactobacillus and having one issue.

@VenusStarr Sorry you’ve had this confusion. I find IVF really exhausting. I started IVF on 2019 and was successful with my son but life has got so much harder now. What are your next steps?

@clhiu It’s good the transfer is not too far off. It’s always been 14 days past transfer from when I started in 2019. Believe me I am petrified to test when I do my transfer as I know there is no way I can try naturally with my FSH levels, infections and my husband’s low morphology.

@Gardenlady543 Hope your cycle is going better and your period has eased. Mine was longer this month which was strange for me. Have you ever used vaginal antibiotics 5 days away from a transfer? I’m a bit concerned as he wants me to wait 3 weeks to do a swab to avoid residual bacteria which makes sense. However, due to time and money, I would be preparing for my transfer for May, but as Invivo take 15 working days (3 weeks), it would be close to transfer. Even if I use metronidazole vaginal antibiotic, I would not be able to use canesbalance to bring down ph and not have much time to use vaginal probiotics. This gynaecologist is good but he does not look at vaginal probiotics at all. Is ciprofloxacin ever used for AV as it does not wipe everything out? If I was younger with a good FSH, I would go with clindamycin, but I will struggle to grow lactobacillus again.

@kerrym87 Are these in the blood or endometrium? I have slightly high nk cells in blood but very low in endometrium. I can only tell you if they are too low in the endometrium, implantation can be affected unless you have treatment for it.

@2021ivfagain I have never used antibiotics in a treatment cycle but will use oral doxy this cycle. I think most doctors don't know about probiotics so just follow the instructions for antibiotics and then use the probiotics as you would have.

@kerrym87 hope you’re ok, I know it’s not much fun the night before otd.

@Gardenlady543 Thanks. The issue is he has advised reswabbing 3 weeks after finishing antibiotics which means it’s tight for transfer next month. With Invivo it’s another 3 weeks for results to come back which will be about 5 days before transfer. My consultant never likes antibiotics to be taken too close to transfer unless it’s doxycycline which triggered severe ibs last time. I can’t take doxycycline as it caused severe pain and took two months for ibs to recover with probiotics and kefir. So I’m not sure what to do. I wish I’d taken vaginal metronidazole. Is that usually for 5 nights? Do you take probiotics normally during the day? Are you going to use balance activ with your doxycycline?

@VenusStarr I am glad to hear the clinic apologised to you. Your chart looks really good. 🤞🏼I wouldn’t worry about the Cyclogest dose in a natural cycle.

Thanks @VenusStarr . Felt useful and fulfilled in work recent days which has helped. Feel less good about myself otherwise though as seem to have instantly turned into a greasy, acne covered teenager with the DHEA. I’ve only been on it 5 days and suddenly needing to wash my hair daily (can usually do 3-4). The hormone changes I guess setting off my skin. I hope things settle a bit! My boobs have also swollen up and been sore. Not normally a PMS symptom for me. I have baseline AFC scan booked next Tuesday. Hopefully AF shows up on time.

Really struggling with keeping fit and in shape. Does anyone else feel like this? Feel I’ve become such a squidge through the IVF. Too worried to affect lining, too uncomfortable from meds, or too worried to affect 2WW, or just plain too tired from it all, that seems so little time when can do proper exercise and so many things conspiring against (hormones, pred). Also (TMI) got a horrible haemorrhoid from how upset my tummy got with the Cyclogest from the last transfer😣. It seems like all the bad aspects of pregnancy without any of the joy….Generally all means self esteem a bit shot to pieces. I’ve booked a haircut next week though, hopefully that helps me feel better about myself :). And then I’ll stop coming on here to moan! Sorry!

@CailinInUK that’s great. Good luck with starting the new cycle. Haha lady garden that made me laugh!

@clhiu I think it’s better to use the Lubion from the start and maybe stop at 8 weeks (as clinics often wean progesterone from this point) or not use it at all, rather than suddenly reduce the progesterone dose too early on. Hope you can find a good price.

@kerrym87 sending lots of love for tomorrow

@thislittlebird that’s a good step forward so far, hoping PGT-A brings good news 🤞🏼

Positive vibes to everyone else!

@Enfys23 the fitness thing is getting me down tbh. ILast week I couldn’t do much because I was still feeling the ER recovery, but this week I feel better and want to be more active but worried about how much to do. I’d lost a few pounds between January and April and with the ivf cycle still ongoing I feel like I’ve put it all on again. If this transfer fails I’m going to hit the fitness hard I think, wanted to feel nicer about myself when I hit 40 but it’s all on hold right now.

Hi everyone, Sorry I've been quiet. Haven't been very well. Finding things hard.

Struggling to keep up, but just want to say -

Thinking of you this morning @kerrym87 x

Congratulations on being PUPO @thislittlebird ! So pleased to hear what a great outcome you had this time. All the best with the 2ww x

That's great you've been able to get started @Gardenlady543 . I hope everything goes smoothly this time x

All the best with your transfer on Friday @clhiu . I pay £56 for Lubion at Asda x

That was dreadful how badly you were treated by your clinic @VenusStarr . I'm glad you got an apology in the end. Still holding onto hope for you during this 2ww x

Best wishes to everyone else too x

I'm sorry you're finding things hard and that you've been unwell @Faithhopelove83 ❤️ When's your next scan?
Thank you for thinking of me. Temp is still quite high today, very thirsty, achey legs and vivid, odd dreams but I'm putting everything down to the meds. Got to take the gcsf injection tonight. Feel like test day is looming quickly...

@kerrym87 thinking of you today ❤️ Dr Shehata doesn't rate the uterine biopsy for nk cells and wasn't bothered that I had a low reading. My nk cell count is normal in my blood as well, its just how they behave in pregnancy that's the issue. Hopefully you won't need to do further investigations.

Definitely feeling like all my fitness hardwork has been undone over this last week 🙄 @thislittlebird @Enfys23 I think I'm going to go to zumba tonight but just take it easy. Something is better than nothing I think. But feeling very unmotivated and a bit flat. Which is annoying as I'd really got into a good gym routine but the disaster on holiday and the extended break, now this cycle have made it hard.

@Enfys23 sorry the DHEA is knocking you about. Hopefully that's a good sign it's doing what it needs to 🙏 are you being monitored on it?

Hope you're OK @Gardenlady543 and @2021ivfagain ❤️❤️

Test negative. Again. Even with one 2x more sensitive than clinic gave me. Hit hubby really hard this time, think I'm just a bit meh and it'll hit me properly later on. Going to look at private consultations for immunology testing, found one locally and may liaise with Dr Gorgy too. Might even look at donor eggs as my fertilisation rate has gone down and the embryos divide a bit haphazard and fragment despite every lifestyle change and supplement I could do. For someone with pcos I just do not respond or have large numbers of decent quality eggs. Mind you, not s huge amount changed this cycle apart from my supplements and trying steroids, stims were exactly the same.

@VenusStarr I used yo do loads of exercise til I got ME now I just look at simple things I can manage and more about relaxation and stress management as that affects weight and things a lot for me. I do little walks most days and some yoga which helps me mentally and physically and helps with lumps and bumps too

I’m really sorry you’ve had another negative @kerrym87. It’s an absolute bin fire of a process, do what you can to look after yourself 💜. Nothing any of us can say will help, but you know we all know how crap you might be feeling. It might be worth shopping around for clinics and seeing what protocols they’d advise. Did you ever see Mr Ramsay or another andrologist? Sorry, I can’t remember if you did or not.

@VenusStarr @Enfys23 I don’t know whether to go to Pilates or not this week. I’m sure it can’t hurt, just makes me paranoid. After I posted I decided to do a low/no impact workout this morning and thought it was quite good so I’m sharing the link:

I don’t know if I really believe any exercise can make a difference to the outcome one way or the other but low impact makes me feel better somehow. Before the start of stims I’ve been working out regularly and controlling my diet well. I had a crazy idea I wanted to lose some weight before the end of May but I may well have undone all my good work by now.

@Faithhopelove83 hope you’re ok x

@kerrym87 ❤️ I am so sorry to hear this. I think your reaction is totally normal, as is your partner's. Give yourself some time. It's completely shit but we're all here with you xx

@thislittlebird I think avoiding any tummy area work is probably a good idea. I normally do legs bums and tums but have avoided that. I think the link you shared looks good. I think being on your feet much be good for the blood pumping. I'm going to try to stay low intensity until I've tested. When I went to zumva last week I actually felt quite low energy and weak.

I ate nearly a whole Easter egg last night... 🙃 🐽 saved a bit for dh.

@kerrym87 so so sorry to hear about your negative test 💔. It is so so hard and you have all my thoughts for what you’re going through. I hope you can find a path forward perhaps looking at immune issues like you said. I hope you have a good support network around you and DH xxx

Thanks all, my hubby is so supportive, I actually don't feel too bad but it might be my brain protecting me and maybe I've developed some coping strategies, definitely felt more positive in all areas of my life for first time in nearly 2 years after increase I'm meds and some topup therapy. It's still going to be rocky I know that and we're not going to start arranging anything for at least a couple of weeks.

@thislittlebird so my hubby had a hormone profile and review by urologist at our nhs hospital and hormones normal, no varicocele, but torsion and fixation as a child may have an impact on his count and volume but as motility and morphology normal, they feel there's not much else to look at. Possibility of antibodies but soern don't clump and move fine. Likely issue is my egg quality (sister had same problem) due to drop off in fertilisation and viability after fertilisation. Had a free consultation with Dr gorgy and there's a clinic nearby that does alot of the investigations and seems to be comparable for rates but reasonable on price so we may explore working with them with maybe one trip if needed to Dr gorgy and he said he'd liaise up here. Its just wading through funding options, which clinic etc and I know I need time to process even though my brain is trying to push forward to distract. It needs to be right decision.

@VenusStarr - I have been good through my treatment then we said sod it, went out for a few hours fishing then both finished up with a parmo! I'm looking at some positives of when it's still negative on Friday my hubby makes an awesome rum based cocktail..
.alcohol free versions are good enough but yeah! 😄🍸🍹 hubby did get a pay rise though after fighting for it for years so that's something to help with the private money pit...small wins!

So sorry @kerrym87 ❤️
If you suspect issues with egg quality, is it worth trying PGT-A?

I’m really sorry @kerrym87 sounds like you’re coping so well. However you feel right now is okay, good you’re giving yourself some time. So glad you’ve got a supportive hubby x

Hey everyone is it ok I join this thread? I’m currently on my second FET with CRGH after a CP with the first one- they mentioned if this round didn’t work with a good quality embryo then they’d recommend me for the ERA, Emma and Alice/Nk killer cells tests and PGTA testing on embryos.

I had my transfer yesterday and was wondering how long after transfer do people reintroduce probiotics? Thinking just oral probiotics for after transfer as I’m worried that I’d built up good bacteria before the transfer but they might have been wiped out by the antibiotics for transfer

@CailinInUK I only had one usable embryo so the risk of damaging the embryo with freezing and thawing I think was outweighing the benefit. Besides, nhs doesn't seem to consider this as sometimes there can be abnormal cells sampled but the embryo can actually sort itself out. Also probably the expense although we would have paid for private add ons they've never offered.
Our nhs clinic doesn't seem to be able to think outside of bog standard but I also wonder if they stimmed too quick as only had 10 days of stims then trigger and less than 60% were mature. Wonder if a long protocol or a lower dose for a couple more days might work. Or just move to donor. Feel very flat today and got a virus from god knows where last few days as haven't seen anybody but hubby.

I'm really sorry @kerrym87 it's so tough.

Welcome @AM08 I take an oral probiotic daily, this cycle I will do daily vaginal probiotics and then stop 2 days before transfer and start 2 days later.

@2021ivfagain I put in a vaginal probiotic at night but there have been times where I have done it in the morning. I'm only using balance activ at the start of the cycle.

Hope everyone is ok, not much update from me just waiting on CD8 scan which is tomorrow.