ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

@clhiu they infuse as little fluid as possible with the embryo as embryos need a very dry environment to adhere to the uterine wall in order to implant, so within the transfer catheter is a tiny amount of fluid (bare minimum) and they don't use any lubricant to put the speculum in.

I imagine the hcg wash won't be done at the same time as the transfer as that would seem to go against the lack of fluid. What I can tell you about my hysteroscopy/fibroid surgery is that they did the hysteroscopy first and infused fluid into the uterus, unlike cartoon gynae images that show the ovaries stuck on the end of fallopian tubes, the tubes are actually open at the end. When the surgeon escalated to open he said my abdomen was full of fluid showing patency of the tubes. Essentially the fluid they put in with the wash will likely end up in your abdomen and some will come down and out. But I have had 2 x hysteroscopies and a saline scan and I haven't noticed leakage.

@thislittlebird erg I know, beside my chemical I have never had anything but negative tests. I think this cycle will be harder if I end up back at a negative test again :(

I'm hoping my period is slowing down but woke up to quite a bit this morning, I think I'm getting myself stressed which is lengthening it as I don't understand how 5mm of lining is still coming out. I have done 2 stim injections now so don't really want a follicle racing ahead and no lining. I have a busy week to keep my occupied this week with the scan in Friday.

Anyone know how long PGT-A takes to come back? I forgot to ask today.

@Gardenlady543 yep, that one positive feels like a distant memory and can’t imagine seeing it again!

Can stims possibly increase flow? Obviously hormone changes can effect these things.

They called to confirm the 2 x 4BB and 1 x 4AA will be biopsied, I’m so scared for them and the results 😩. If they’re ok then they’ll call me tomorrow with another update on the rest, otherwise I might hear sooner if any don’t survive the biopsy process.

@thislittlebird that's great news! Fingers crossed for you. Test day is 2 days away now and being positive and upbeat just hard now.

@thislittlebird it may vary depending on the clinic, but with mine they said up to 2 weeks and got back a few days quicker than that. It is nerve-wrecking I won’t lie, especially the feaor of them not surviving. All 5 of mine biopsised survived so far if that helps with any peace of mind in that sense, including one that tested inconclusive and had to be thawed and biopsised a second time. As a statement to PGT-A my 3 top graded ones that would have been transferred first with out testing resulted abnormal. My only confirmed eupolid is lower grade than those.

Thanks for answering my silly question about the risk of an embryo falling out after FET 😅.
The HGC infusion is done 20 minutes before transfer, I will ask about the amount of liquid used, hopefully they’ll provide reassurance.

@kerrym87 I must be a week behind you, my test day is next Wednesday. They aren't days I look forward to, it's understandable if you feel like that.

@clhiu I'll email the nurses and ask how long it takes. I hope it's not the same day I have to test :/ Hopefully mine will survive too. It's interesting how it pans out, hopefully we'll get at least one euploid.

@thislittlebird interesting your test date is next Wednesday and your transfer was yesterday you said? With a transfer date of 21st April, they have given me a test date of 5th May which is two whole weeks and a day, it sounds borderline nuts?! Especially since in natural cycles I seem to have a very consistent luteal phase of 12 days and all 4 times I fell pregnant I always tested positive from the first day of my missed period. This would make it 20 days from ovulation, is it just me or that is abnormally long?
It's going to be truly excruciating.

@clhiu transfer was today at 9.30am! My clinic doesn't do a full two weeks, my previous NHS clinic didn't either. You can obviously test earlier, but they might not accept the result yet if they want a full 2 weeks.

Congratulations 🥰 @thislittlebird 🙏 for your other embryo.

@kerrym87 keeping everything crossed for you for test day. I hope you've been coping OK. The roller-coaster of emotions is so hard.

Thank you @clhiu its very hard to be positive. Any time I have a glimmer of hope or rational thought that we're in with a chance, my mind literally stops it. It's quite exhausting.
Just on testing, my clinic does 9dt for beta bloods abd 11dpt for hone testing. Think they're one of the shorter timescales.

So, an update on my 'endo' I've had a new letter to say its a dermoid cyst 🧐🫠 no explanation or apology though...

@VenusStarr huh? They changed their minds again? Or incorrectly informed you before?

Thanks, I’m not super optimistic about the euploid rate we’ll have but I guess it’s best to try.

@VenusStarr omg, seriously? what on earth?! Are you able to call them and ask for clarifications? seems crazy

I know @clhiu @thislittlebird 🤔 none the wiser. I called earlier and asked for a call back. Was at work and just missed a private number, no voicemail. So no idea if it was them. (Am also waiting for my GP pharmacist to confirm my levothyroxine dose increase, so could've been them). Not managed to get hold of anyone and then had an email with the new letter attached, but no covering information... 🙃

@thislittlebird biopsying before freezing has a high rate of success.

@VenusStarr I did think it's weird that they changed their mind. They should really advise why they have gone back and forth.

I have always had test day 10 dp5dt and then they ask to repeat 2 days later if neg to make sure, so that's technically 15 &17dpo/retrieval. My luteal phase is normally 13-15 days so works for me so your date seems really long!
@VenusStarr wtf??? Can you complain to the unit manager? I've done that before when I wasn't getting clear communication

@thislittlebird welcome to the tww bus

@Gardenlady543 and @clhiu
I’m having same treatment done to raise nk cells in endometrium and prone the endometrium for implantation. The hcg infusion will definitely be occurring the same day as transfer just 20 minutes beforehand. This was confirmed in my consultation. This is where I do trust my clinic as they are very skilled at this and have good results from this treatment. I would not worry about this treatment at all.

@Gardenlady543 and @clhiu It’s bad that predictive text changes what I write! It primes the endometrium for implantation. That is what I was told when I had my consultation.

Is there anyone in here going through IVF/ICSI with severe Endometriosis?
I don’t know if it’s worth getting tested for NK cells before starting 🤷🏻‍♀️I’ve read that 30% of women with endo will have high NK Cells. My clinic recommended to get started first. But what’s the point if the environment has a high chance of being inhospitable.

We are doing a 3 cycle refund package so less riding on first transfer financially but I don’t want to go into it thinking it probably won’t work or regretting not getting tested first.

Thoughts?

Had my appointment with gynaecologist today. He said with my recurring infections and as my nk cells in blood are only slightly high he thinks steroids would exacerbate things when I have the transfer. He also wants me to do another swab with Invivo in 2-3 weeks and if atopobium vaginae is still there he will prescribe vaginal clindamycin or vaginal metronidazole. He said due to my previous ibs issues he thinks it would be more effective vaginally. Has anyone had more success with vaginal antibiotics? I’m worried about using vaginal clindamycin as it will wipe everything out. He said as atopobium vaginae is not so common is frequently not picked up on all swabs so it’s good he accepts what Invivo say! Also he did say it’s due to declining oestrogen, but doesn’t think I should delay my transfer too long.

Would anyone have vaginal clindamycin or vaginal metronidazole close to transfer?

@VenusStarr don't apologise it’s hard to be optimistic when you get lots of crap thrown at you. I completely agree that the clinic need to receive a complaint about this so they don’t do it to anyone else or you again. They really do need to explain themselves here. And confirm this is a final communication on the diagnosis! Never ever heard of something so ridiculous.

@thislittlebird so glad you got to transfer and have a couple to biopsy too. Crossing fingers for your 2WW and the biopsy results.

@kerrym87 it is very hard, thinking of you tomorrow ❤️

@Gardenlady543 that's so frustrating the bleeding is ongoing I can understand getting nervous about the lining when it keeps going into stims, really hope it stops soon. Good you’ve got a distracting week though hopefully not too busy.

@clhiu I’ve never had leakage of fluid after saline scan or hysteroscopy. As @Gardenlady543 says most goes out the other way. And the amount of fluid with the embryo is minuscule. OTD for my clinic is 11dp5dt so yours does seem quite long. My luteal phase is always 12 days anyway.

@2021ivfagain I have seen them used for BV in pregnancy. Could you do this then up the probiotics before transfer?

Thank you all ❤️ feel like it's sent me a bit crazy. I'll see if I can get hold of them today. Part of me wants to leave it because its stressing me out.

@ChickenT2b what is the clinic's plan to manage your endo? I think the difficulty is with nk cells, there are numerous ways to manage. My protocol started fairly low level and is now very complex as it didn't work as they expected in pregnancy. From threads on here, some clinic are quite cautious with steroids as well, mine wanted me on 10mg in my FET even after I'd lost a healthy baby on 25mg (plus all the rest of the meds).
What type of nk cells testing do they do? It's expensive but getting a full immune panel might work out better, if you decide to do it before the first transfer.

Thank you @Enfys23 how are things with you?

Hope your bleeding has eased @Gardenlady543

I'm sorry you've got more confusing information today @2021ivfagain i dont know whats the right thing to do. When would you be looking at transfer?

Feeling horribly bloated. Don't think I mentioned, but I've been taking the wrong amount of cyclogest (400mg instead of 800mg). Ffs. Somehow I've ended up with some 200s in my collection and just didn't notice as the boxes are exactly the bloody same. My temps are still looking alright but heartrate is still low. Can't decide if it's useful to be checking or not...

Have a good day everyone x

@2021ivfagain yes I used vaginal clindamycin and it worked for me, this was after my second biopsy with 0.00% lactobacillus. It sounds like this gynaecologist is very good and knows about infections.

@VenusStarr oh this is annoying, I know they come in 200 and 400 it must be a common mistake as my clinic write on my protocol that there are two doses and check I have the right dose. Your body will be making Progesteone anyway so you are just supplementing. I don't know much about what the heart rate means with this. Mine is unstable I was running a very fast heart rate in my cycle before Xmas.

@Gardenlady543 I do have lactobacillus Jensenni and feel that if I use clindamycin and it wipes everything out I will not be able to recover my lactobacillus again due to declining oestrogen levels. I did ask to try vaginal metronidazole first of all. The issue is he suggested taking these close to transfer if I get my result back later which means all the probiotics will be wiped out and I will not be able to put these back in before transfer. Also I would have to wait to use vaginal probiotics after transfer. He also suggested using clindamycin during pregnancy in second trimester. I asked about probiotics briefly and he said he was not a nutritionist so he doesn’t know much about them.

When you used vaginal antibiotics did it raise your ph? The thing is as I have high fsh I will automatically have a higher ph which will take longer to come down. In fact this month during my period I avoided canesbalance until day 3 and I felt like it was burning. He did also say fluomizin is bad for someone with high fsh as it might cause burning.

@VenusStarr sorry you’ve been messed about. I’d be thinking similar, if it’s stressing me out, I wouldn’t pursue it. This ‘journey’ takes so much out of us we have to pick our battles. I’d maybe write a short terse reply but wouldn’t spend time or dwell on it. Do what’s best for you.
Your natural progesterone will be much higher than the cyclogest so the temporary 200 should be fine.

@thislittlebird fingers crossed for you. Great to have some in freezer, PGT pending, takes the pressure off a little. Great morphology!

@2021ivfagain if you haven’t tried vaginal antibiotics before, maybe it’s worth it. Perhaps there is a risk of wiping some good bac out (I don’t know this for sure) but maybe that’s what has to be done to get rid of the bad stuff?

Thinking of you @kerrym87

@clhiu sounds like it’s standard practice so doubt you’ve anything to worry about with embryo falling out. This rollercoaster makes us suspect and worry about everything. Not long now!

@Gardenlady543 glad you’re going ahead with cycle. I’ve been wondered about your mumsnet name - is it a play on lady garden or you are actually a gardener?!

I’m in the waiting room now for my ‘Day 21’ AFC scan to check my follicle count pre down reg. consultant was suggesting a month off but I can’t stand the waiting and time seriously running out. I think I ovulated late this month so there’s maybe a corpus luteum in the way…

@VenusStarr i hated temping, it was always more stressful so I gave up after a few tries. I also have the 200mg Cyclogest, 3 months supply of them from the nhs so I need to use those as well as the 400mg I have.

Ok final update today:
5AA transferred
4BB biopsied
4BB biopsied
4AA biopsied
5CC frozen without biopsy because it’s unlikely to survive.

So a similar outcome to our first cycle, roughly. My hopes are very low for the euploid rate based on my age but we’ll see. Obviously the 5AA working would be the dream but this is not my first rodeo and I know the odds are slim for us now.

I've literally just done that! @CailinInUK I have a brief email saying the doctor has amended the letter, but no explanation or apology. So have replied and just said I was upset on Friday that I'd been given new (and subsequently incorrect) medical information via letter with no explanation. But I'm relieved that it isn't as serious as it had appeared.
I'm hoping with the trigger and the 2 follicles my natural progesterone should be ok, like you say.

Good luck with your scan, let us know 🙏

Good news about your embryos @thislittlebird I hope that your one on board is well and you get some eupoloid results ❤️

@Gardenlady543 my resting heartrate is usually about 57 and its only 60 now. In my last pregnancy I was 72 but that was at 6 weeks. Since joining the gym my natural resting rate has come down anyway, so it's not necessarily a true comparison. I've turned off the display but it still records, so I'm just torturing myself by checking 🙃