ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

Mine seems lower this week than last and I’ve been on the blood thinners since the day after retrieval @clhiu

@VenusStarr I’m sorry you did not have a positive outcome. Could you wait and do IVF again? When I was nearly 40 and just after, my levels were good. It’s so hard.

@clhiu I always took blood thinners with every transfer. When I got pregnant, my iron levels were really low so this caused fast heartbeat which was scary. I did come off blood thinners due to subchorionic haemorrhage. I think you could contact your consultant at CRGH if you are concerned. They might recommend blood tests but have you had issues before?

@Gardenlady543 That lining is good. With my last transfer, I had a follicle exactly that size. It sounds good.

With Flora femme, I tried them last night without canesbalance and it did dissolve so I might not be that bad this month. I’m fact, my symptoms have improved a lot but when I was taking antibiotics there was a 20% improvement. However, the day I stopped the antibiotics, my symptoms were not good at all. Then a day later on Flora femme and things have improved. Is it possible that Flora femme treats atopobium vaginae? It does say that Flora femme temporarily improves symptoms so I wonder if you have to keep taking probiotics to get benefits long term? Are you going to take Flora femme after transfer? I really want to take Flora femme after transfer as well as canesflor does
not have as many benefits unless I take it in the morning or twice a day, but even then it’s not as dramatic as Flora Femme.

Evening all, my hcg just came back at 22.7. This is very low for 4 weeks 4 days I guess 😕 (approx. 18 dpo)
Now I’m not sure whether to pay for another test on Weds or if it’s pointless and see what happens to my tests.

@clhiu you just have a nice stable heart rate to notice 1bpm difference, my tracking is all over the place!

@2021ivfagain I just use a variety of vaginal probiotics, will prob use flora femme before transfer then stop 2 days before.

@ChickenT2b I'm sorry it wasn't the result you wanted, 20 and above is pregnant but it needs to double every 2-3 days and it doesn't sound like yours is going up. FRER is so sensitive it picks up the lowest amounts so if this is a chemical the FRER will allow you to see if it goes down. I didn't bother with another beta in my chemical as the FRER went down until the line was gone.

My LH was 2.6 and estradiol was spot on at 1500 (I read that 1300-1800 is optimal). So glad I stuck with my gut and didn't start the antagonist. I have done the trigger tonight and transfer is booked in for Monday. I'll start PIO and cyclogest on Wednesday and have a Progesteone blood test on Monday am. Also booking in acupuncture pre and post transfer I hope.

@Gardenlady543 I do remember you mentioning that before, that sounds like such a tough recovery! Are you on your way for your next FET now? This is what I’m worried about - everything I’ve read says they affect implantation and IVF so why have I been told to carry on with my cycle just to receive more heart breaking news in a few weeks when my FET likely won’t work! I thought the prostap would have shrank it a bit but it didn’t. So do you think getting it removed in the UK comes with a lot of risks?

@Gardenlady543 it was also really strange how my lining looked “normal” but then slightly moving the probe and doing the 3D version it really showed up :(

@Loz2467 ask to get the images from your 3D scan, if I were you I would set up a consultation with the doctor I mentioned and get their opinion.

I'm in a natural modified FET right now, triggered tonight with a transfer planned for Monday next week.

@Gardenlady543 That is a good level. My lh last time was 5.6 on trigger with largest follicle measuring 20mm. I’m hoping my oestradiol will be high enough. I have been told anything over 400 is what they want at clinic. With the Flora femme do you know if they actually cure infections? This is the only one which seems to be making a difference.

@clhiu Do you know what your oestradiol was when you triggered?

@2021ivfagain I just checked the cycle summary report and when tested the day before confirmed ovulation my estradiol was 2604 and the day before that 3369 - that was the day I was told to trigger. I also checked and as of the last recorded scan which was the same as the former number my lining thickness was 15mm.
Never had previous issues with blood count, heart rate or low iron, I’m just worried a dropping heart rate is a bad sign that the embryo hasn’t implanted as to my understanding it should steadily increase to a point during early pregnancy then stabilise; it’s gone down by a further point today.

@thislittlebird of course I too hope for a positive outcome for you, it’s just really rubbish regardless having to go to the constant worry and stress over a new things every day, I hope this time around it turns our to be unjustified xx

@2021ivfagain it is just a probiotic, it is part of a three pronged solution to resolve an infection with creating an acid environment and antibiotics. With my 0.00% lactobacillus in the past nothing except antibiotics would resolve it, I was taking loads and they did nothing. You'll need to follow the advice of the specialist you're seeing for the infection, are you waiting on a swab at the moment?

@Gardenlady543 please could I ask how long it took from negative test to bleeding with your chemical? FRER is a squinter this morning so must have dropped a lot over night. Thanks

Guess you will all be putting up with me for a while longer.

Today I am ordering Fertilysis RPL tests and finally signing the Care contract 💪🏼. We are going for the 3 cycle refund program.

I'm so sorry @VenusStarr . I was so hopeful for you. How you're feeling is completely understandable, but please know that none of this is your fault and you have not let your DH down. Be kind to yourself. Sending you a big hug x

I'm also sorry for what you're going through @ChickenT2b and all the uncertainty. I hope you get clarity soon x

@thislittlebird I'm sorry about the spotting. Still hoping for a good outcome for you though x

@Gardenlady543 I'm glad your scan went well and you've been able to trigger. All the very best with your transfer on Monday x

Love to everyone else too x

@ChickenT2b I was in a FET so by the official test day the line was gone and I didn't bleed until after I stopped the progesterone. I'm really sorry, this sucks :(

Thankyou @Faithhopelove83

I went obsessively googling and now worried about my estradiol level being too high, although it's hard to compare studies as all use a different type of FET protocol and test estradiol on different days. The whole purpose of low dose stims in my case was to increase estradiol to improve my lining, which it did. So I just need to try and stop overthinking/ researching now.

@ChickenT2b sorry to hear you’re experiencing a chemical. May not be as relevant as this was a natural pregnancy and there was no progesterone supplementation, but my second MC was essentially a chemical pregnancy. I took a test on day 2 of my missed period and was a clear positive, in the early morning hours of the following day I started spotting and within another 24 hours I went into full bleed and knew it was over. I still called the EPU and they advised to take another test 1 week after the first one and when I did it was a negative straight away. I didn’t bother testing in between as I knew it was over. I hope you don’t have to wait too long for your body to be ready for the next steps ❤️

@Gardenlady543 I have read that even if not submucosal that If they are very close or even touching the lining of the womb that they can cause issues. So surely this is the reason for me never getting pregnant again. I watched some of that webinar that you mentioned. I just need to finish it but seems very informative. I just can’t help but think I shouldn’t have started this process and spent thousands when I clearly have underlying issues that were previously dismissed. I’m going to ring the clinic today and get my scan pictures ran by my actual consultant. I hate being told “don’t worry”. I mean as if that’s even possible when going through IVF and infertility. I’m wondering why sometimes my lining showed as “normal” and literally just moving it slightly you can see it. The 3D one was just crazy. It was so obvious. They say there is enough room but it’s not that it’s the receptivity of the lining isn’t it when a fibroid is there like that? So would you not suggest the open surgery with you being so poorly? That sounds really tough but it seems like it helped your next cycle get a little bit further albeit a chemical.

@ChickenT2b i’m so sorry that this has happened to you, it’s so horrible to see the double line and then to see it fade but you will recover from this. My last round was a chemical and it hit me really hard about a week after but now I’m back into the next round I’m feeling ok.

@Gardenlady543 have your clinic mentioned there view on your hormone levels? Try not to fall into the google trap - i know easier said then done. How are you feeling otherwise ahead of your transfer?

I’m freaking out a bit today that I have been taking Optibac since day 4 after transfer and this morning after taking it I have had huge cramps - one of the nurses at my clinic said it was fine to take (a few weeks ago) but now I’m second guessing it the probiotic might impact the embryo…

@AM08 There is an optibac which states it is safe during pregnancy. I have been told I can oral probiotics thought it.

@Gardenlady543 I’m in limbo at present. The gynaecologist said that he wanted me to wait 2 weeks after taking oral metronidazole to do a reswab with Invivo. Problem is it takes 3 weeks for result to come back. It’s very tight for time and know that I will not have time to put in many probiotics and canesbalance before I do a transfer. The other option is to not do a transfer this month and do it next month to have time to use vaginal clindamycin if I need to. The issue is my clinic are still not supporting me on this.

However, after being on Flora Femme, my symptoms are better. When I was taking canesbalance with canesflor during antibiotics course, there was no real improvement. Could Flora femme be masking the symptoms? I also read that Flora Femme contains only one active ingredient. I’m surprised that it works even though the strains are not active?

I worry that my oestradiol will not be high enough even though my lining really gets thick. They seem more concerned with progesterone. Do you know if the corpus luteum continues to produce oestrogen even in women with high fsh?

@AM08 Predictive text is a pain! I’ve been told oral probiotics are fine throughout pregnancy.

@Loz2467 I was told I had a fibroid at my initial screening before starting Ivf and was reassured it wouldn't affect anything, they said it was causing a arcuate uterus (it pushed down the top of the uterus so it looked heart shaped), they said it wasn't submucosal, I went through numerous transfers and when it was removed at the same time as the submucosal one, it had endometrium on it which by definition means it was submucosal. It's interesting that the one and only time I implanted was after the fibroids were removed. I would still have got them removed for sure but if I knew there was a less invasive option abroad I would have gone for this which would have had less risks of adhesions, scarring and a shorter recovery. When deciding whether you should go ahead you probably need to consider how many embryos you have.

@AM08 my clinic didn't do bloods in my medicated FET, I think they only did it at all to help plan this natural modified FET, they won't monitor after and it looks like the jury is out on optimal levels at different points. I'm feeling ok going into this one after having so many blips in the last few, things seem to have gone to plan to date :)

I honestly don't think the oral probiotics are causing cramps and highly doubt they would affect the embryo. They are just good bacteria that you are ingesting and are the good bacteria needed in the uterus.

Thank you, felt very panicked and tearful earlier but think your right@2021ivfagain, it sounds like you have some tough decisions to make over next steps - how would you feel delaying transfer by a month?

@Gardenlady543 glad this round is going more to plan, i do wonder if natural modified is a good route to go down, as with the medicated it’s so full on and if a more natural approach is better - fingers very much crossed for you! When is your transfer? I’ve calmed down a bit now,m re probiotics, I think your right and I got upset as I haven’t had any cramping really and then started to have quite bad ones - let’s see!

@2021ivfagain I know flora femme has a lot of strains in, i think they told me they are freeze dried or something and stable for travel without the need for refrigeration, they must be active in some way or there is no point in using them. They have more probiotics in them than any other vaginal probiotic that I've seen. Nobody has done a study on the use of this product in treating infections as far as I'm aware so I doubt you'll get your question answered anywhere. But if you feel it's helping then it sounds useful to use it. I think the issue is that you want someone to answer all these questions and take ownership of your case and tell you exactly what to do and what will work, but this isn't realistic, there is not much research in this area and few specialists have expertise in it. All I do is try and figure out what seems to work for me and stick with that and hope for the best.

If your estradiol isn't high enough they can add supplements after ovulation.

@AM08 there are some people with recurrent implantation failure that do better with natural modified compared with medicated. Natural modified does seem to have a slightly higher success rate, clinics usually favour medicated as it is easier for them to schedule patients. My transfer will be Monday.

@Gardenlady543 Good luck for Monday. You’re nearly there. Flora Femme contains an active ingredient Aloe. Is this ok in pregnancy? I prefer to use this product after transfer as don’t really get much benefit from canesflor, but will have to use it as well.

I need to decide whether to proceed this month not knowing if infection has gone, waiting for swab result and husband is now unwell. Or do I wait for results and then I can take Vaginal clindamycin and take canesbalance and probiotics after treatment? My concern is I would be getting the treatment too close to transfer and then not being able to use enough canesbalance and probiotics to lower ph etc.

My consultant will not give me additional oestradiol after transfer. I have had to fight for extra progesterone, timing of probiotics and extra meriofert. My lining gets thick eg 12mm plus. I do oestrogen priming to the max in luteal phase and will now be on 300 meriofert every other day. They like oestrogen above 400 and last time it was 510.

@Gardenlady543 Thank you! I just had a nurse call me back and It’s the one I haven’t taken too so the phone call was pointless “they wouldn’t do a transfer if there wasn’t a chance of success”. I can’t help but not believe this. They were happy to take the 13k and then start pulling things up. Sorry. I’m on such a downer today. I’m moping around on my day off work! Struggling to find any motivation. It’s definitely submucosal as that was on my notes but obviously wasn’t seen on my hyterscopy but that was a year ago now. I’m still on the waiting list for the lap so maybe I could have that with another hyterscopy and go from there but I won’t have the option of going abroad for the surgery :(

@Gardenlady543 Did you have any bad side effects from vaginal clindamycin and how long did you take it? I’m trying to time things. I’m wondering whether to skip my swab and ask my gynaecologist in Plymouth to just prescribe it. Didn’t want to go into a transfer without any lactobacillus at all, but having to wait 3 weeks for result to come back is making me anxious. At present, I have one issue, but have to take a chance. I’m thinking of taking it, so I can definitely do my transfer in May instead of June. I’m just thinking that my oestrogen will be even lower, but the clinic seem to put more emphasis on progesterone.

I have emailed my consultant in London about whether I could be given extra estradiol. I think if I could be given extra estradiol I would probably wait an extra month. I have a friend in America with high fsh. She did natural FET and was given progesterone and oestrogen for 10 weeks. She was successful.

Did you use balance activ with probiotic straight after taking vaginal clindamycin?