ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

It's sounding good @thislittlebird I hope things continue that way 🙏

Keeping everything crossed for your embryos and transfer @kerrym87

I'm glad @Faithhopelove83 not too long now. I really hope you have a good news next week. Thank you x

I guess we have to be in it @Gardenlady543 I'm trying not to beat myself up about it. We just having to keep going and focus on where we're at.

Hope everyone is getting ok ❤️

Hoping for a better outcome with these 5 embryos @kerrym87 🤞🏼sending lots of love, it’s so hard. In my last fresh cycle I can recall a call on a saturday for fertilisation report after EC on a Friday; then day 3 was the Monday. So guess it’s EC day that’s day 0.

@thislittlebird that sounds really promising 🤞🏼

Thinking of everyone. Hope people manage to enjoy at least a small part of the Easter long weekend. I had the day off today and made a chocolate fudge cake with mini egg decorations - completely against my whole eat healthy low sugar malarkey but thought we deserved a treat!! Will try not to feel too guilty 😖

@Enfys23 i get first scan and BT on day 6. I think the clinic recently changed to Day 8 first scan but agreed to me continuing day 6 ( I think I’m their ‘best customer’ sadly. I request more monitoring blood tests than they normally provide too, so I have a good idea of the number of mature eggs. I’ve got it down to a T! They had a habit in early cycles of triggering me way too early. Day 10 is a bit late for first scan in my opinion. Hope your review goes well.

@kerrym87 v sorry to hear your fertilisation rate. Were the 14 eggs mature? I hate the ‘all it takes is one’ slogan too but sometimes it works that way. EC day is day 0.

@2021ivfagain sorry you are having issues. Who diagnosed you with the atopobium vaginae? Can you ask them for advice? When you get to transfer, which you will, how many will you put back?

@Gardenlady543 I hate the waiting too, I have to be doing something towards the end goal so if I’m not having treatment I’m researching or trying to have a healthy lifestyle. Takes the pleasure out of a lot of life. I’ve put certain aspects of my life on hold, my sport, my friends, and wondering when I’ll ever get beyond this. We’ve decided to proceed with our plans to build a house, which will definitely fill our time. It’s something we really want to do but both a bit daunted by the huge expense/debt and the possibility of empty bedrooms.. we have 2.5 years left on our approved planning permission to get started! Good luck for your next scan.

@thislittlebird looking good with the follicles! What’s your estradiol looking like?

@VenusStarr It’s been a while since you did this, hasn’t it? Bound to feel weird. What issue did you have with oestrogen?

@clhiu great you’ve got the green light. Yea FETs are nerve wrecking in a different way to IVF but easier physically, if they go smoothly.

Didnt get my PGT results before the Easter break so will be next week now. Anyway, I’ve worked out it’ll be around four weeks until I start my next stims. I can’t wait to get on with it.

It’s a big IF but if I do get one to transfer over these next four PGT-M and PGT-A stim cycles that I’m prepared to do this year, can anyone recommend places to go for uterine assessment? I’ve no known issues but wanted to check the physical/structural side, especially after my late miscarriage and all the ivf treatment cycles/hormones, e.g. a hysteroscopy? I’m sure my clinic would do it but was wondering if there are specialists that you would recommend? I’m in Midlands but happy to travel. My friend suggested a 3D saline scan as it’s much cheaper?

@CailinInUK Hope your next cycle goes ok. I did biopsy to assess nk cells in endometrium too. Is that what you mean?

Invivo picked up atopobium vaginae which was high. I had no gardnerella just atopobium vaginae. I do have some lactobacillus Jensenni. Problem is the nutritionist is stumped but also realises that due to my declining estrogen levels I will struggle to fight off infections due to lack of glycogen. My nutritionist also mentions supplements which I’m always worried interact with hrt, norethisterone etc. Therefore, I can never just say I’ll work on microbiome with her supplements for a month as I always have to control my cycle each month with norethisterone and zumenon. I feel like a lost cause.

My clinic are refusing to help me and think I need to find a general gynaecologist to do further swabs. Invivo are the only company who have given me a detailed analysis. I have bad discharge, barely any cervical mucus and burning. I’m feeling like my consultant is not listening. I need to boost my oestrogen to improve lactobacillus protection. What dhea did you take and did you take it in the follicular phase and luteal? Have you ever taken dhea when stimming?

@CailinInUK I have had both a saline scan (HyCoSy) to check patency of tubes but also a hysteroscopy. I’ve been lucky that consultant is experienced gynaecologist to do this hysteroscopy too. I hope you can get some tests sorted. Sounds a good idea to check everything over for transfer of those precious embryos.

Just wondered for those doing estrogen priming did you also take norethisterone or the pill for was it just the estrogen on the luteal phase of the cycle before stims? I’ve read up a bit and it does look a potential idea for me as seems to help synchronise follicle growth - I had 8 follicles in total growing in the last cycles but eg in August had 4x 18-21mm, but 3 under 15mm and 1 was over 22mm. I can’t do long protocol though as seems a bad idea for those with poor response like me from what I can see.

@CailinInUK 8 were mature. It's a bummer as for someone with pcos I produce the amount of eggs normally produced by those without it but usually have afc of 30 or over. My sister was exactly the same, same number of eggs also of not great quality so there must be a genetic component. May consider donor eggs if it's futile trying to use mine when they're not working properly..

@kerrym87 That’s frustrating, an AFC of 30 has such potential. Is the clinic being too cautious and giving you low meds and triggering you too early? What size are your follicles getting to?

Thanks @Enfys23 I’ll check what experience my consultant has in hysteroscopy as not even broached the subject yet. I’m getting way ahead of myself.

@Enfys23 You take any progesterone pill they advise such as provera. You take that from cd14. Then from cd21 you begin hrt taking 2mg twice a day until you get your period. You stop progesterone tablet in cd25 usually. You might be on less hrt as your fsh is normal. You might only need to take hrt for 5 days but if you do it as I mentioned it will work out to about 8 days. You can ask me anything about oestrogen priming as I’ve been doing it a long time unfortunately.

Sorry @2021ivfagain I never replied to you first. I took DHEA (Biovea) orally for around 10weeks but only 25mg/day. This was in prep for IVF in March. My DHEA-s went from 5.23 to 5.59 umol/l in that time so not a significant rise. I’ve actually stopped taking it since mid March so will go into next cycle without having used it. I was nervous about taking the normal 75mg.

I don’t know what more swabs from a general gynae will add for you, you know what you’ve got. Perhaps they could advise on how to treat it though? Any reason for you not doing a medicated FET with oestrogen priming
if you are concerned about your oestrogen levels?

@CailinInUK The medicated FET cycle would not have estrogen priming as such. The issue is the clinic are not good with medicated cycles. I did one in 2019 and felt ill. Also had lining issues so at my age now the superovulated FET cycle is best for lining and era etc has been done for this cycle. As I don’t like medicated, I would have to repeat era.

I need more estrogen to protect against infections. I don’t know what to do. Feel ok at present as still doing oestrogen priming and been using vaginal dhea with vagibiom! It sounds insane but it works. The higher oestrogen lowers ph. Problem is it does wear off. I have vaginal estriol low dose but need to be careful when to use it. I’ve ordered gynoflor but there’s so a wait on it. That is such a low dose of estriol in does not show up in blood and is just enough to activate cells to produce more glycogen.

@CailinInUK My consultant does not trust Invivo and will not help me at all with what they have picked up. He thinks Invivo just want to make money which is ridiculous and as they state they cannot prescribe anything and it is not an actual diagnosis he does not trust it. I wish I could’ve given him a copy without that information on it. So I’ve had to fight for antibiotics but metronidazole is not so good against atopobium vaginae but fluomizin can actually cause a lot of bad symptoms such as burning which is not good for someone with a lack of cervical mucus.

@CailinInUK there were 16 follicles at least 16mm, some were 20's, one was about 29mm. I honestly don't know if they should have stimmed me longer due to the variety sizes of the follies. It's something I will explore in future private cycles as you really have to ask together any explanation or answers at nhs clinic

@CailinInUK I was on 300 iu menopur until day 6 then added in 150iu of ovaleap (menopur issue) until ec on day 12 if that helps with if it was right dose

@kerrym87 those follicle sizes would all be considered mature, wouldn’t they. 29mm maybe ‘over mature’. When I was on more Menopur than Gonal F/Ovaleap, I had a low number of eggs compared to follicles. Might be worth trying majority Gonal F/Ovaleap with some Menopur/Meriofert.. IF you have to try again. Unless you’ve tried that already in the past…

@2021ivfagain it's rubbish CRGH is so clueless when it comes to microbiome issues, you'd think they'd know how to support as they claim expertise with the EMMA and ALICE tests. Are you saying if you did estrogen priming that would essentially invalidate the ERA you did and call for another one? It's so hard to decide what to do every time there is another hurdle. Do you reckon you may be able to find a specialist gynaecologist soon and that you may be able to proceed with things from your next cycle or you're concerned this could be taking longer?

@CailinInUK I just had a hysteroscopy directly with my clinic CRGH, my consultant recommended it and apparently she has written papers on the benefits of having one ahead of FET, although it was a different doctor who performed the procedure, I felt in good hands. I was offered a 3D saline scan as cheaper alternative, but decided to go for the full hysteroscopy as was told it was more through.
I know that it's hard to feel optimistic about anything at all when things have gone wrong in the past, but 4 rounds of egg collection ahead of you in the coming year should give you very decent odds to get multiple normal ones I am sure, but I would also want to have a full uterine and endo assesment before proceeding to transfer with previous experience.

@clhiu No. The ERA only works for the medication I have used and the protocol. With a medicated protocol, it works differently. You cannot time the transfer as well as a natural modified superovulated FET cycle. The medicated is more about lining thickness. For example, the first time I was doing my natural modified superovulated FET transfer cycle last October the staff kept mixing up my protocol calling it medicated and saying I could transfer on 6th day of taking progesterone. But that was before I did era.

I was never offered a full hysterectomy just a 3D scan and that was last June when I thought I was prepping for a fresh transfer until fsh went really high.

@clhiu I think I’m seriously running out of time and money. So I’m going to take metronidazole with lactic acid and vaginal probiotics, try to increase oestrogen with omega 3, dhea, wheatgrass and hrt. Also eat some oestrogen rich foods such as tempeh, warmed hummus and lentils. I’ve made an appointment with a gynaecologist in Plymouth but so many swabs do not pick up atopobium vaginae. When I had gardnerella and atopobium vaginae last July, it was awful. Both my doctors and CRGH said my swab was normal. I did a swab with Home Diagnostics and gardnerella was picked up. I did with Invivo and they picked up gardnerella and atopobium vaginae.

As my hormone levels are getting worse, I will have to proceed with a transfer next month. I’m very scared about my levels at times and constantly have to question how I’m feeling to gauge if my fsh levels are ok. For example, close to period I start to sweat at night, but when oestrogen is higher I’m fine. Last time in my FET cycle I was on 225iu meriofert every other day and responded well but had afc of 8 which is extremely low for me.

If I just have atopobium vaginae and it is lower, then I have to proceed but need my consultant to tell me when I can resume the vaginal probiotics as I don’t have many embryos left. How do you feel about your transfer? Is this your last chance like mine?

Absolutely exhausted today after the review so sorry to write and run but just wanted to say thank you for everyone’s advice and comments xx

It sounds like yesterday was intense @Enfys23 I hope you're OK ❤️

@CailinInUK sorry I didn't reply before. I had done a textbook FET with 6mg of estrogen, all went well with my response but ended in a MMC and surgical management. We waited for the cytogenetics (normal) and then just had endless issues. It looked like I had scarring, so had hysteroscopy (clear). I then just didn't respond to estrogen and they kept upping ne but my lining shrunk, so had 2 cycles cancelled and my natural liming was crap (they would've done a natural FET that cycle but it was rubbish). Eventually did a low dose stim cycle which got my lining to nearly 8mm and we converted to a collection cycle as had 3 follicles - have low amh so didn't want to waste them. But only one made it to a day 5 morula, so defrosted my last embryo which deteriorated so put both back and it failed.
Just completely exhausting 😢 we only felt ready to try with superovulation then dh got sick. So we are doing a version (should be doing it with gonal f as my history with letrozole isn't good as it thins my lining, so need extra estrogen). Sorry its so long!

I'm abit anxious as my heart rate went up this morning as it usually does when I ovulate. I am doing temps as well but they're still low. I did lh yesterday too, one was fairly dark but still negative.

I hope your new gynae can help you @2021ivfagain it sounds very stressful 💗

Hope you're OK @kerrym87

Hope you're comfortable @thislittlebird

How are you getting on @Gardenlady543

Love to all xxx

@VenusStarr that sounds stressful. are you doing, IUI or times intercourse? Do you have a scan due?

tbh I’m a little too comfortable and worried I’ve ovulated 😩. I know it’s unlikely but I was a bit uncomfortable until the last couple of days and that suddenly stopped so it’s making me anxious. Another scan in the morning.

Facially I’m uncomfortable, having some sort of sinus flare up, not sure if hormones can trigger that.

@Enfys23 that all sounds stressful tbh, hope you’re feeling ok today

@Gardenlady543 wide feet are such a pain, so few brands cater for us. What sort of orthotic do you need? I’ve bought some Altra trail shoes and they’re still a little small for my left small toe but I’m hoping they’ll stretch a bit. Might need to get a more supporting insole for them, will see how I get on.

@thislittlebird I go to orthotics at the hospital although haven't been for a few years now, all people with feet issues should go, as adjusting the foot into the correct position is so important to prevent joint issues elsewhere. I had surgery when I was young and I have fallen arches. For work shoes I wear clarks sillian paz and put my insoles in them, I think Clarks have discontinued them which is annoying, so I buy them from eBay, they do wide but I find the normal width fit me.

Can you get some saline spray, I used that in my nose before and it helped and it's just salt water. Good luck for the scan.

@VenusStarr I hate the monitoring uncertainty, I hope you get a clear result so you know what's happening.

@2021ivfagain aloe Vera increases estradiol, I have a plant and I cut off a leaf and chop up the flesh and put it in orange juice as it tastes awful. The only thing is you have to be careful supplementing estradiol as it could mess with your cycle.

@CailinInUK I have everything crossed for your results. I hope it's been nice knowing they aren't imminently coming through, I find that I can switch off a bit better knowing things are shut and results aren't coming.

@Enfys23 what are you doing with treatment at the moment? I keep getting behind with everyone's posts.

@Gardenlady543 Thanks for advice about aloe Vera. Can I have aloe Vera juice? I do get ibs from time to time but I wonder if I can have it a bit. I tend to avoid these sorts of foods like tempeh when doing oestrogen priming so would avoid aloe Vera at same time. I’m wondering would aloe Vera interact with metronidazole? I would only take it for two weeks. How much would I need each day?

@thislittlebird timed intercourse, hopefully with trigger. We've been dtd every other day due to his dna frag results so hopefully if I don't end up triggering we'll be covered. Scan is on Tuesday.
Fingers crossed for your scan tomorrow. I had weird face ache last night and a stuffy nose out of nowhere, maybe it is hormonal. How you feeling now? Mine is ok today but felt like I was coming down with something.

Thank you @Gardenlady543 just done another lh test and it's lighter again 🤔 not doing well with not overthinking things!

Panic over, had a massive temperature drop today and my heartrate has dropped again. Will do an ovulation test later. Really hoping this means something good for my scan tomorrow. Massively overdue good news.

Hope today goes well @thislittlebird

Hope you're OK @kerrym87

❤️