ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

Hi @2021ivfagain sorry for the delayed response to this. No I haven’t got any symptoms whatsoever of anything being wrong down there to be honest, which aligns with the findings of the tests re no bad bacteria and no infections, but I suppose being low on lactobacillus might have some effects in itself, no idea! I don’t think there were any issues with my sample size either or at least it wasn’t mentioned and my lining was 12.5mm at the last scan. CRGH did offer me a second biopsy after the Canesfloor treatment, but said it wasn’t mandatory and to be fair I have ran out of money and just could not afford one so just going ahead hoping my lactobacillus has improved between Canesfloor and oral probiotics. I’m also thinking that because I got pregnant 4 times very easily and 2 of those 4 were confirmed losses due to chromosome abnormalities, I don’t think my bacterial flora can be that much of an issue, but who knows! My lactobacillus might well have plummeted since my last pregnancy and turned my womb totally hostile to implantation since, I’m gonna have to take the chance. It’s completely impossible to have everything completely perfect and in check I find for me otherwise this will never end.

@thislittlebird very pleased to see your ovaries started to respond better, woop! I hope the cycle continues on this more positive streak. By the way I totally get the financial concerns and implications of all this, especially for cancellations.

@kerrym87 happy to hear about your positive EC outcome, I hope you get a good fertilisation rate.

@Enfys23 good luck with the PGT results 🤞

Day 2 of my cycle today so I went for my baseline scan and of course there is a cyst in one of my ovaries, how could I possibly think the cycle would start smoothly! They took bloods and will let me know tomorrow if it appears to be producing oestrogen or not, if it is, the cycle will be cancelled. Frustrating as I took Norethisterone especially to prevent this from happening and for an extra 4 days too compared to the other times too. Never had a cyst found in over a million other scans I had done in the past year including for two medicated cycles, but this time it popped up. @Gardenlady543 not only we are on the same protocol, but we also seem to be following a very similar trajectory!
My main concern more so than the delay is that my clinic charges £570 for a cancelled cycle after baseline scan, which sounds outrageous especially after just one scan and one oestradiol blood test, they should just charge for those specific items. Trying to get confirmation from their finance team on whether that’s definitely the case regardless of cause for the cancellation.

@Gardenlady543 Yes it is antiseptic but wondered if the same applies. I did read that it can cause utis, cysytis and even BV.

I’m feeling very worried as my hrt is not working fully. I’m not sure whether stress is playing a role. I’ve been on norethisterone for maximum time so progesterone is high and getting close to period. Also taking dhea but it’s not working like it usually does. I woke up and I had sweated over night down there. It’s getting quite warm in the bedroom now weather is getting better. It’s about 18-19degrees with window open. During the day I feel quite cold.

When I spoke with my nutritionist I said I barely produce cervical mucous now. I get more when I’m on stims and trigger but even then on mild stims I only produce more when I ovulate. Before and after is much drier. She said if there is a lack of cervical mucous I will not be able to produce glycogen which is needed for vaginal probiotics to do their job.

I read somewhere that I need to sort out estrogen first. Sorry but feeling quite lost as the sweating close to period is triggering infection.

Has anyone used Dhea cream and/or vaginal dhea? I have ordered some and might just use them!

@clhiu I know from past experience at CRGH if the cycle is cancelled at baseline and you do not go to your next appointment for the next scan you will get a full refund. You will only pay if you go to your next scan after baseline.

Thank you so much for the pointer @2021ivfagain, that makes me feel a bit more relaxed. Money’s been a real worry recently for a number of reasons and I don’t think I could take that extra expense.
I’m so sorry to hear about your continuing struggles with your microbiome and infections, I’m starting to really find the information and options so much of a minefield and so tricky to make full sense of I don’t really know what’s best and wish we could just trust our consultant or that at least second opinions aligned, makes you feel still clueless and nonethewiser even after being around the houses so much.

@clhiu what are the chances! Well you've got good company. I was surprised that my estradiol was so high but I guess that was a good thing as it meant they could trigger me.

@kerrym87 that’s great news. how are you feeling? I hope it wasn’t too bad this time for you. Really hope the embryologist reports are positive over the coming days 🤞🏼xx

@clhiu oh dear, I’m sorry you’re twins with @Gardenlady543this cycle 😣I hope the bloods are better news.

@thislittlebird woop woop! That’s great to hear that there was such a change in a few days.

@Gardenlady543thanks for the info, I’ll have to look into it.
@2021ivfagain thanks, I’ve been really worried about my FSH since they started mentioning POF with me before Xmas but this seems reassuring for now.

Does everyone else get baseline scans and bloods with their clinics? I just got one day 10 scan during stims in short cycle and that’s it. Even when I’ve asked for extra monitoring and said we’d pay for it. This is really last shot in the package (3rd fresh cycle) and then we’ll really need to reassess what we can afford after that so I think I need to just put my foot down about it? I also want to know lead follicle is right size before starting fyremadel this time. They’ve just guessed at day 5 for the antagonist start previously. Seems a lot of guesswork and assuming I fit the usual pattern but I think I’ve proven I don’t by now so I really want things done based on proper data, I don’t want to end up with 1 egg collected (or worse) again. That was devastating.

@Enfys23 7 for fsh is good. I wish that was my natural fsh. When I was 40, my fsh was 6.7 and amh 16. It very quickly declined as I reached 41. Age is a big factor and stress. You have age on your side.

I’m feeling cold a lot and worried it’s due to hormones. With your levels, you are not POF. Your amh would be lower and fsh much much higher. I freaked out when one month I didn’t ovulate and it rose to 24. I hope my fsh is ok this month.

Does anyone feel very cold during the day near their period and warmer when they wake up? I wear two pairs of socks, winter slippers and layers!

@Enfys23 One good thing about my clinic is frequent blood tests and scans. It’s a lot but they can monitor things better. Even though your fsh is really good, you could ask to do 5 days of estrogen priming just to get maximum follicles at same point. I would ask for extra scans and blood tests. It’s a shame you can’t go to another clinic.

I think zomacton would be good for you. They do it at CRGH. I wondered if you could ask for it. You use it every other day for 5 doses. Also I found I had a good cycle when no cetrotide was used but instead indomethacin so no suppression at all. Also my stims were 225iu meriofert and 225iu fostimon every day.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate yours and everybody else’s help x

@Enfys23 yes my clinic always starts a cycle with a baseline scan and bloods then a second scan 3 days into treatment and then alternating days, but I've been called on consecutives days too when they saw things moving faster than expected. They're not cheap, but very good in that sense that it's unlikely they'd miss your ovulation or issues, they're very through and that's something I like about them (my only good vein in my right arm much less so!)

I was given Zomacton (growth hormone) at CRGH too, to help as many eggs as possible mature given I had EC when I was almost 43, I got 16 collected of which 12 mature, which was much better than I was expecting so that protocol worked for me in the sense of getting as many mature eggs as possible in one cycle. I was also on 225iu of Meriofert+Fostimon every day the Cetrotide antagonist.

Thank you for the encouragement @CailinInUK ❤. I can totally relate to being desperate and terrified. I hope you get good PGT results x

Thank you @Enfys23 ❤. My clinic does a baseline scan but they're terrible for not doing bloods unless the scans give reason to. I've had to push for extra bloods recently x

Thanks @VenusStarr . I thought my meltdown had been on this thread, but I got mixed up, with my apologies. I'm all over the place at the moment! I hope stimms are going well x

Delighted you had a much better second scan @thislittlebird !! What a relief for you! I had been going to say to check the terms and conditions of your Access package (I'm on a similar package with my clinic and I know there was something in there about cancellation) but thankfully you won't need to now. Onwards and upwards! x

So pleased your EC went well @kerrym87 ! I hope you get good news from the embryologist today x

@clhiu I'm sorry about the cyst and cancelled cycle, you must be so disappointed x

What a mare of a time you're having of it at the moment @2021ivfagain . I'm sorry I've no advice. I hope everything gets sorted so you can do a transfer soon x

Love to everyone x

Gah, I'm behind again! @thislittlebird amazing news! Can't believe you only had one and now lots! 🤞 for your next scan.

@kerrym87 hope egg collection went OK and you've had news of fertilisation ❤️

@Faithhopelove83 I've done that before and confused myself or repeated myself! 😅 just on letrozole this cycle. Last day today and think I can feel something going on. But not getting my hopes up. I'm in for my scan and intralipids on Tuesday.

@Enfys23 I've always had at least 3 scans on fresh and FET cycles. Definitely try toget more monitoring if you can. One doesn't feel enough. My clinic uses cetrotide and I've usually started that after the first scan which is about day 6.

I'm sorry about the cyst @clhiu any news on your bloods?

Hope you're OK @Gardenlady543

Thinking of you @seven201 ❤️

I've upped my protein. Just about to go for a walk as well. Need good lining and hoping for a decent follicle 🙏

Bloods were fine so this cycle’s still on, phew! 😰 I’m really being kept on the edge with every step it seems, I expect this all the way through at this point.

@kerrym87 well done on the successful egg collection round! I hope you get lots of blasts!

@thislittlebird congrats on the follicles waking up springing into being! I hope they produce lots of healthy eggs.

@Enfys23 my ivf clinic do a baseline scan cd2 ish but no blood tests, unless cycst found at baseline. They don't do many extras at all. It annoyed me too.

@clhiu phew!!!! What a relief. Good luck!

@VenusStarr well done for picking yourself up after the disaster holiday and throwing yourself
In to this letrazole cycle.

@2021ivfagain I'm so sorry you're having such a shitty time.

@Gardenlady543 hope your cycle is going well after the cyst hurdle!

I had my 10 week scan today. I've been spotting brown for 3 days (still am) so was worried but there is a good heartbeat and it is only measuring 6 days behind, not the 7 it was before. Going back in 2 weeks. I'm going to start an ERA/Alice/Emma pregnancies thread in the pregnancy section for any who wish to join. I'll tag some I know who are pregnant. Obviously hoping to see you all soon on there after some successful cycles. I won't be coming on here too often but of course if you have a question I might be able to help with (unlikely as I'm a bit useless at medical stuff) then please do tag me!

Lots of love and good luck wishes to your warrior ladies xxx

@seven201 Sorry to hear about the bleeding but it’s encouraging the scans are going well. I had bleeding in the first trimester with my son as I had subchorionic haemorrhage. It was a scary time.

@clhiu Glad your cycle can start.

@Faithhopelove83 Thanks. It’s hard. Don’t know what to do.

Had a really frustrating day. Waited for antibiotics to turn up so I can get things moving with my transfer as too scared to take fluomizin. I read it can cause burning and a lot of other side effects. I’ve asked and lots of people don’t know enough about it. So one last time with metronidazole when it turns up!

However, I have had a breakthrough with vaginal dhea. The thing with atopobium vaginae is it’s been causing a lot of inflammation which is worse when I’m trying to lower fsh. I took one vaginal dhea which is made free of chemicals and has natural ingredients like vitamin e. I actually had a good night’s sleep and felt good until I realised my antibiotics were not turning up as the vaginal dhea is only temporary to try and lessen inflammation and boost estrogen.

I had a frustrating email from my consultant. He said I should avoid all advice from my nutritionist and that the ph balance does not matter. He also said cervical mucous is not important but from what I have read and been told by fertility experts is that for vaginal probiotics to work you need cervical mucous to produce glycogen so probiotics work effectively. I asked if I can take dhea and only remembers my negative experience with it when I was taking too much. When I lessened dosage, it works well but my consultant is not being helpful. He is not recommending anything to help. In fact, he thinks I should see my GP who never even picked up gardnerella when I had it or see a generalised gynaecologist to carry out further swab testing. What I need is my clinic to help with swab testing. Why do I need to pay out more money to see a generalised gynaecologist?! He feels I should delay treatment which concerns me as soon I won’t be able to do a natural transfer. Then I’d have to pay out more money to repeat the era with medicated cycle which I don’t want. Their monitoring of medicated cycle 4 years ago nearly was terrible. My lining struggled and I was only 38 then with high amh believe or not.

I wonder whether I should see a peri menopausal gynocologist. All I need is to artificially increase estrogen more to help my treatment but my consultant does not want to work with me on it. Has anyone used Dhea cream?

I think also I did a silly thing. I’ve been taking maximum norethisterone to buy me more time but also tapered off progesterone lubion and cyclogest as did not want to stop it suddenly. I’ve done it before with guidance from consultant but this time stress levels have affected fsh.

I just feel so lost. The Health Visitor called me today about my son’s next appointment and I burst into tears. She was worried about me. I just feel so overwhelmed and don’t know what to do for the best.

My counsellor also told me if I cancel this month the clinic might refuse to give me a prescription for more medication! That also caused more stress.

@2021ivfagain @clhiu thank you so much for sharing these protocols. It gives me ideas to raise at my review this weekend.

Thank you everyone for sharing their clinic’s usual cycle monitoring scan/bloods - it helps me to push for more!! It sounds like my clinic is seriously lacking.

@clhiu such good news!

@2021ivfagain I am so sorry. While I know it’s yet more cost, if your consultant isn’t that helpful on it I wonder if it would be good to find a gynaecologist who would be able to give you some more useful input? I’m sorry it got so bad today, I hope you’ve got some supportive people around.

@seven201 wishing you so much luck 🍀

So we have 5 fertilised out of 14 collected, this is the worst bit as 1st round we had 7 fertilised only one made to transfer as rest just stopped dividing. 2nd we had nothing due to covid. Has a bad dream embryologist called us and there were no embryos left. I know it just takes one but it's shitty to having to go through whole egg collection every single time.

Good luck to everyone else as I'm sorry I've lost track where you all are!

@kerrym87 I hate the it only takes one statement, because I mean yeah it some it only takes one but really you need as many as possible and of course you'd want the highest yield possible. With small sample sizes really anything can happen so just because 7 became 1 in the last cycle that doesn't mean the drop off will be the same. You have 5 in the running so fingers crossed over the next few days.

@2021ivfagain I have a lot less CM these days vs in my 20's, so maybe that is why I'm needing to use probiotics and acid products. I wouldn't bother with the ERA, I'm really not convinced about it.

Ahhh @seven201 I'll miss you in here, especially as we've been here since the start, but you're leaving because things are going well which is good.

@VenusStarr have you got any scans this cycle?

I'm just trying to find anything to focus on to pass time, hate all the waiting around. Have decided to clean my wet room with a jet washer (not recommended but best way to get it clean!)

@Gardenlady543 Thank you. Yes vagibiom is great and as I’m older I use extra lactic acid. I like vagibiom. It’s a pitty vagibiom cannot be used after transfer. Was your consultant helpful about when to use vaginal probiotics? I’m trialling using vaginal dhea which contains vitamin e and it’s helping inflammation. I’m going to alternate that with canesbalance and probiotic during antibiotics purely because vaginal dhea will help with cervical mucus. In fact, it’s been getting really bad this month. That’s what scares me. My consultant is persuading me to cancel this month but time is so precious to do superovulated FET natural cycle. He’s not believing I have/had atopobium vaginae and thinks I should see I ‘general’ gynaecologist to do more swabs. It’s bad that they don’t take me seriously. I’ve emailed a peri menopausal gynaecologist who will understand me. My consultant is absolutely clueless about all of my problems with microbiome especially for a woman in her 40s. Also another thing is after transfer there will be no estradiol so how will I cope? Obviously, I don’t get really dry but would do after a month unless you produce estriol in pregnancy if I even get that far? When you had atopobium vaginae in your biopsy, what cleared it?

@clhiu good news. I hope things run more smoothly from now on. Glad you can get going, what's next?

@seven201 congratulations, really pleased for you.

@kerrym87 keeping everything crossed for your little embryos. Are you aiming for a fresh transfer (sorry my memory is like a sieve at the moment!)

I'm so sorry you're having such a stressful time @2021ivfagain I really hope you can find a way through 💗

Did you have another scan today @thislittlebird ? Hope all is continuing to go well.

@Faithhopelove83 hope you're doing well.

@Gardenlady543 the waiting is horrible, keeping busy is good but I do struggle with it. Hopefully these next few days will go quickly for you and all will be good when your period arrives. Will you have another baseline scan?
Yes, scan is on Tuesday, cd11. I started estrogen today as well, should've started earlier but after all my issues with it last year, I've been scared to. But I finished letrozole yesterday so hoping the follicles have been recruited and the estrogen will boost things now. Did an lh test today, feels weird to be doing all this.

I just can't help but feel well go through all this effort and it'll be the same old story. Christ, sorry to be so negative 😔

That's great news you have 5 embryos @kerrym87 . This bit is such a stressful time. Will you need to wait the 5 days before you get an update, or will you get a day 3 update? I'm wishing you all the very best x

Thank you @VenusStarr . I'm doing a lot better thanks. Work was tough but a good distraction this week and I've now got 5 days off with some nice things planned, before scan on Wed. I'm sorry you're not feeling so great about your cycle. It's so easy - when we're used to failure after failure - to think that it will be the same, things won't change. But I really hope this cycle is different for you and brings good things. Hope you have a good weekend and all the very best with your scan on Tues x

@kerrym87 glad to hear you got 14 eggs, but sorry to hear the update isn't as good as before. Did your clinic comment on your dh's sample? We had a bad sample in November and couldn't do IMSI.

@clhiu it's just super stressful, we're average earners and we luckily have an affordable mortgage. Without that I doubt we'd have funded this much. They added bloods to my invoice today and I was like ermmmm nope, I'm not paying that, I have an access package! What's the latest with your cycle?

@Enfys23 yeah, I get baseline and then bloods each time I go for a scan. Four times this cycle.

@seven201 good luck!!!

@Gardenlady543 I also hate 'it only takes one'. Clearly it does not, I've had 5 embryos fail already, so that phrase can get in the bin.

@VenusStarr yes, another scan was done today! There's 12 at the right size now, Fri, Sat, Sun left to do stims and they've decreased my gonal f from 225 to 200, which is fine by me. Another scan Monday and they'll also ask me to trigger that night, I think.

I'm right there with you on the negativity. I just can't really believe any outcome will be different.

I'm spending the weekend prepping for our May and July holidays. Trying to find trail shoes for my wide feet for the lakes in July and about to try on a swimming costume for Portugal in May, can't say I'm going to love the late into stims belly look!

@Gardenlady543 I’ve just read that metronidazole is only able to get rid of atopobium vaginae at very high doses. Have you ever taken it for two weeks?

@VenusStarr @Faithhopelove83 @thislittlebird aiming for fresh transfer, will get an update tomorrow but can't remember if they class day of fertilisation as day 0 or 1 🤔. They said it looked good other than low volume of 0.5ml so no point doing count as we would lose too much of sample so we had icsi

@2021ivfagain I took it for 12 days, not sure about that bacteria but for garnderalla the fertilysis doctor told me that they don't think it's ever resistant to metronidazole and if a prolonged course like 4 weeks is used, it will get rid of it, it's just it forms biofilms that are hard to penetrate. The problem is your fertility specialist and probably most gynaecology won't know much about the microbiome. I'm a doctor, nobody has ever sat me down and talked about the importance of the microbiome and it's important in many areas of the body. But maybe your specialist is right, maybe it doesn't matter, BV is so prevalent and the rest of the world seem to be fertile. It just makes me feel better to take probiotics so I can know I'm doing everything I can.

@VenusStarr yes another baseline scan so I guess it will be early the week after this one. I mean it's so hard, I think well will this every work but I guess all I can do is try.

@thislittlebird I have wide feet too! And I have to wear orthotic inserts! I can't wear heals.