ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

@Enfys23 have you considered low dose naltrexone, it's supposed to be good for people with thyroid autoantibodies. I arranged a consultation through Dickson chemist and provided evidence of my hypothyroidism diagnosis and prescription and they prescribed it and sent it to me. Think it was £50 for the consultation and £30 a month for the meds. Your fsh and estradiol sound good. I had a similar testosterone level and then it was fine the next month, endocrinologist wasn't concerned about the low level. I have never had peroxidase autoantibodies either but I had high thyroglobulin when diagnosed who then declined to normal, the endocrinologist feels this was evidence of an autoimmune thyroiditis caused by IVF hormones similar to how pregnant people get it. I've attached what happened to my thyroglobulin autoantibodies.

@VenusStarr I don't think you can do anything to make follicles grow, bodies just do what they want :( I hope you respond you are due some good luck!

Good luck @kerrym87 I'll be thinking of you, my clinic told me they started doing waking sedation which sounds similar and I'm not looking forward to it if I use these 2 last embryos I've got and need to go again :(

@VenusStarr yeah a bit like NK, not sure how much like it but bother are immune issues. My husband said to me, do they really talk to the rich patients like this? It made me think. I have no idea if they do, but I just feel drained and want a doctor who empathises and listens, but that’s too much to ask.

@Gardenlady543 about me or SH? We’ve simultaneously been seeing the Lister and Guys so I guess we’ve had second opinions in that way, not formally sought out. The thing is we know the issues with DH and what they need to do now, and now it’s just a case of finding a new protocol for me or returning to the one that worked (150 gonal F) but I feel like I can’t say to my doctor “no, we aren’t carrying on, we’re abandoning and trying again next month”. Someone tell me this is fine???? I can tell them no, can’t I? If I go in tomorrow and there’s still very few growers, I can just pull the plug and say let’s stop, pay the damage and try again next time? I feel so browbeaten by this entire experience but I really can’t afford to pay for another scan and two trigger meds if tomorrow’s is looking bad.

Glad you’re looking like a FET is back on the cards and the plan has worked.

@kerrym87 thank you. I’m sorry the EC is so painful for you, I hope it goes as well as these things can.

@VenusStarr 60g of protein per day (apparently) and lots of water would be my tips, but what do I know, mine don’t want to grow either :/

@Faithhopelove83 thanks! I’m tied in with them for this cycle so want to get it right. I could cancel tomorrow if I’m entitled to do that, and maybe switch doctors but I have no idea which one would be good. I feel like all the doctor reviews are by people who have had successful outcomes. He’s not done a lot wrong, it’s just a case of sticking to the more, more, more stims playbook and giving me sharp responses at times when I could do with something more reassuring.

@CailinInUK yeah, normally it is. Every time I’ve been scanned I’ve had 20-35 follicles at baseline but when I have cycles they don’t always all respond, and that’s fine, I don’t need that many, but I do need more than one to respond 🫠. I’m very uncomfortable with long protocol and anything involving lots more meds because I have bad migraines and i desperately don’t want to trigger them, or anything else for that matter. So my hope would be we go back to 150 Gonal F which resulted in 15 eggs and see if that works again because trying other routes.

@Enfys23 could you do the dhea test? I don’t know if it helps but I don’t have DOR and my testosterone is 1, which isn’t much different to yours?

@thislittlebird if this is a collection cycle then you are paying a massive amount for the collection procedure and embryologist's work, so I wouldn't do that without an expectation of a good yield, a lot of clinics will have a refund policy for abandoning a collection cycle. I think it's best for you to find out how much it would cost if you cancel and how much if you go ahead and if you did cancel what the specialist would do, eg change protocol, only start stims with a good baseline afc, when you could start again

@Gardenlady543 can I ask what you mean by refund policy? I have an access package so I think??? I’d just have to pay for the bloods, scans I’ve had and then transfer the access package to next month. I don’t want to get the egg collection if there’s under 10 on that scan tomorrow. If we go ahead it’s using up our last access cycle and I’d rather not do that, since we’ve paid upfront.

I guess I’ll email him tomorrow.

I guess what I’m currently panicking over is that it won’t be my choice. Can I as the patient choose to cancel? Or does the consultant have to say let’s abandon it? I feel so stressed out that I could be made to go through with it when I’m not happy with the response/protocol.

@thislittlebird you can totally choose to cancel as the patient. It’s your body, your finances, no one wants it to work more than you.
Just check where you stand financially first.
I nearly cancelled last time but chose to carry on, consultant agreed. I tend to influence when I trigger and ask for more monitoring blood tests than standard. I know my body and my response so well at this stage, though the last cycle was a curveball!

@Enfys23 Your results are good. In particular, fsh is good. Anything below 10 is normal and shows a good response. Also it indicates good egg quality. When my fsh got high, things changed quickly but things are looking good. Dhea would definitely help. I take 75mg a day but I’m nearly 42. Perhaps ask and see what your clinic say.

I’ve decided to try and push for transfer this month as worried about suppressing fsh all the time. In fact, I’m worried about fsh this time. The vagibiom are really helping so much. I feel better down there since I started vagibiom. Need to start doing 2 probiotics a day. I’m feeling cold sometimes and had to put heating up but think I’m feeling tired. Also feeling very hungry and earlier in the month I had issues with my contact lenses getting dry eyes. I feel slightly sweaty at night when very close to period but have a lot of progesterone in body as was taking progesterone for transfer and tapered slowly. Then started norethisterone for maximum time. I had a good chat with my nutritionist and she said if there is only one issue she thinks I should go for it. She was very positive and said she has seen people get pregnant with lots of vaginal bacterial issues, not one, but they have had to be monitored closely.

She could not tell me when I can restart vaginal probiotics but I will ask my consultant again. If not, I will start 2-3 days after. I just worry as I won’t have many blastocysts. I suppose I’m being extra cautious.

@Gardenlady543 Pleased they confirmed ovulation with corpus luteum and lining sounded good. I’m really hoping this will be your time to transfer. It’s so hard when you get so many setbacks.

@thislittlebird first ask your clinic as they may be able to cancel and let you settle the scans within telling access and then restart without them updating. If they will tell access then you'd need to ask them if they will allow you to abandon and if so what the cost will be, I heard for FETS they let you abandon one but anymore than that then it's £300 a time and collection cycles cost a lot more. Of course you can abandon, they can't hold you down and stuck a needle into your ovaries, you need to consent to it.

Hello. Hope everybody is ok. I’ve just had my ALICE/EMMA result back and it says ‘ultra low biomass microbiome’. My clinic CRGH have just recommended a course of canesflor and increasing my diary! But I don’t think this is going to be enough - I’ve already been taking canesflor (although a bit on and off) and I take loads of oral probiotics. Has anybody else had this results before and managed to improve things? X

@Gardenlady543 that’s the key thing, I don’t want access getting involved if I can avoid it. It’s hard to know what to do, yes I can abandon but if there might be a hefty fee then I probably can’t afford to abandon. Or if there isn’t a fee and they just let me pay for what we’ve spent it’s different. I hate all this, doubt I’d bother with access again if it complicates stuff.

@CailinInUK I feel like I know my body too and I respond fast, every time we’ve done this as OI or stims I respond quickly and I’d be very surprised if my body has decided to sprout lots of follicles at this stage or a later one.

@IVF22 a couple of people here have had that result, the info I wrote is here www.reddit.com/r/infertility/comments/rwsxwy/theuterinemicrobiomeemmaalicemenstrualfluid/?utmsource=share&utmmedium=iosapp&utm_name=iossmf

I would advise that you take balance activ or a similar product for the first 7 days with a vaginal probiotic, take the vaginal probiotic for at least 10-14 days.

There are better products than canesflor

Vagibiom
This also has l crispus as well as some other strains and has the acid product and a prebiotic built in
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vaginal-Probiotic-Suppository-30-Natural-Vaginal-pH-Odor-Control-No-Parabens-/283702366882?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Florafemme, this is the ultimate vagina probiotic, it has 72 billion bacteria in it and lots of different strains. It is expensive and you only get 6 in a packet.
florafemme.com

Both come from USA, so you could start with canesflor and use them when they arrive.

I then take a vaginal probiotic daily in FET.

@thislittlebird start with your clinic, my clinic didn't tell the finance package that my FET was abandoned and said they never ask questions. So you could just start again next month if they do the same.

That's ok @Faithhopelove83 I'm pleased that it helped to talk. I'm glad they've brought your scan a little bit closer and that you're feeling reassured ❤️

@CailinInUK I hope you get your results soon and that you do have something to transfer 🙏

Thank you @Enfys23 he's seeing the GP in person today so hoping the referral is put in.
Glad you have your results back and they are OK.

Good shout on protein @thislittlebird I'll get some cottage cheese today, I remember loading up on that during my fresh cycle.
I hope today's scan goes OK. I understand your worries about cancelling and money. I hope you can cancel and not need to let Access know. I'll be thinking of you ❤️

@kerrym87 thinking of you today x

@Gardenlady543 you're right, I do feel something is going on and I have a massive spot that pretty much covers my whole chin, so hormones are obviously kicking around. I had some sort of reaction in my eye last night and that swelled up too 👍 all the ingredients to make dh want to have sex! 😅🙃

@IVF22 I don't know much about that @Gardenlady543 is your woman I think. But glad you got your results and definitely think it would be treatable x

@2021ivfagain hope you're doing ok. I think having a plan always helps and you've definitely thought things through x

Crossposted @Gardenlady543 🤦🏻‍♀️ that shows how long it took me to write that post!

@thislittlebird for migraines sumatriptan is safe when ttc its a rescue med gp can prescribe. Its brill but can only use as a treatment rather than preventing a migraine x

Thanks everyone...waiting to go in going to do some meditation and hopefully take phone with me to listen to relaxation stuff

@kerrym87 good luck, let us know how it goes!

ok, my massive panic is over for now. My body has decided to respond to the 225 gonal F and there were 11 follicles on the left and 5 on the right, but some were under 10 (3 or 4 maybe) so we’ll see how that goes again on Friday. They’ve booked me in for a scan Friday and a scan Monday…that’s a lot of scans this time.

thanks to everyone for listening to my freak out 😩

Great news @thislittlebird 🙌 16 is perfect as you'd want to aim for 12-16 at collection.

Thinking of you @kerrym87

Oh no @VenusStarr you are in the wars!

@VenusStarr i would eat cottage cheese but I’m not a fan. There’s been a lot of high protein yogurts this week in my house!

@Gardenlady543 thanks! Yeah, I’m relieved. I don’t need hundreds of them, just enough to have a chance with some embryos. I know it could go up or down on Friday but it’s a better scan at least.

@thislittlebird that's great they're responding now, fingers crossed. Got 14 eggs, one didn't look mature but just waiting for embryologist ri ring with how many eggs survived icsi, call tomorrow on what's fertilised and go from there.howpfuly all supplements we've both had and lifestyle overhaul has helped quality although hubby's sample was very low volume at 0.5ml everything looked ok

I’m still wondering whether I should use fluomizin instead but cannot find out anywhere if it would wipe everything out. I think my estrogen is affecting me now. Also as fluomizin is broad spectrum, will it cause other things to crop up? I remember @Gardenlady543 you said about taking a broad spectrum antibiotic which caused more issues.

Atopobium vaginae is resistant to metronidazole. Does anyone know if it causes inflammation?

My nutritionist has suggested metronidazole but she didn’t know half the products I was recommending like Flora femme and fluomizin. I have looked into vagina.com website which I think are based in Australia but they have a product for AV and advise against antibiotics. They also say about boosting estrogen before doing any treatment as lack of estrogen will cause treatment issues.

Sorry for the moan. I have vaginal dhea which contain natural ingredients but worried about using them.

The website is www.my vagina.com which has a lot of information on different infections.

@2021ivfagain I thought it's antiseptic, the issue I had was a broad spectrum antibiotic didn't target the anaerobic bacteria which flourished.