Daughters killed 'as they slept' - by mother. No comment on MN?

[yerblurt]

Thought this would have come up on Mumsnet.

An absolute horrendous situation, mother is currently on tria for murder and the trial is expected to last 2 weeks.

If you don't want to know about the details then now is the time to press that "back" button and not read any further.

This is the 2nd case in the news of a mother killing her children... what on earth is going on.

Personally I think she will be found guilty and hopefully will spend the rest of her days incarcerated for murdering her children in cold-blood.

Details from here:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/8241723.stm

Daughters killed 'as they slept'
Rekha Kumari-Baker
Rekha Kumari-Baker denies murdering her two daughters

A mother accused of murdering her two daughters at their Cambridgeshire home told a special constable: "I have killed the kids", a court has heard.

Rekha Kumari-Baker, 41, of Stretham, denies murdering Davina Baker, 16, and Jasmine Baker, 13, on 13 June 2007.

Cambridge Crown Court was told Ms Kumari-Baker killed the girls as they slept at home.

The judge, Mr Justice Bean, said the defence would argue she had "diminished responsibility" for the killings.

He said they would claim she was suffering from a "serious abnormality of mind" when the offences occurred.

I've done something terrible Natalie. Please call me
Rekha Kumari-Baker's answer-phone message

Prosecutor John Farmer told the jury that Davina was stabbed 39 times in a "frenzied" attack.

Ms Kumari-Baker, a hotel worker, then attacked her younger daughter in similar fashion, he said.

Mr Farmer told the court that, after killing the children, she got dressed and twice went out in her car before ringing a friend to say: "I have done something terrible."

The court heard there was "much contention" between the defendant and her ex-husband over the care and custody of their children.

Jurors were told one theory was that Ms Kumari-Baker wanted to "wreak havoc" on her ex-husband by killing the girls.

Davina Baker, 16, and her sister Jasmine Baker, 13
Davina and Jasmine were said to be sleeping when they were killed

Mr Farmer told jurors Ms Kumari-Baker bought the knife she used to kill her children at an Asda supermarket in Cambridge on 11 June 2007.

He said she had woken early on 13 June and then gone to the girls' bedrooms and murdered them.

After killing the girls, she got dressed, got into her car and drove towards nearby Ely, the prosecutor said.

Ms Kumari-Baker then returned to her home, "showered and cleaned herself up" then went out in her car again, he added.

Shortly before 0630 BST she telephoned a friend and special police constable Natalie Barford and left an answer-phone message saying: "I've done something terrible Natalie. Please call me."

Ms Barford went to the defendant's home and she was arrested.

Confession note

Mr Farmer said the breakdown of Ms Kumari-Baker's relationship with her partner, Jeff Powell, may have acted as a trigger for the attack.

"The end of the affair was a trigger to put into motion the mindset that was going to lead her to murdering her daughters."

He added that the defendant was "concerned" that her children were spending time with her ex-husband's new girlfriend Kadi Kone.

A note found at the home of the hotel worker following the discovery of the bodies, and signed "Rekha", read: "Sorry doesn't mean anything now.

"I've killed my two daughters. I did not want them to get hurt like I did.

"Jeff hurt me so much I cannot explain. He found it difficult to compromise at times but I loved him so much.

"My kids will not be a burden with anyone any more."

The case continues.

I hope she is found guilty or innocent as the evidence dictates.

Until then, I cannot pass judgement really, except to say that anyone who murders a child, doubly so if their own (unless severe psychiatric disease present and then the difference is th place of incarceration/ care) should be locked up for a very long time

What else is there to say, really?

I read this yesterday and found it chilling and quite incomprehensible.

Well, terrible situation obviously. But what you've put there is clearly the case for the prosecution, which will be all that has been heard of te case so far.

I can't imagine what the defence will say to mitigate it, but until that side of the case has been presented, the judge and jury will not be able to make a decision about the rights and wrongs of it, so nor should we attempt to.

She must be mentally ill.

What else is there to say?

it was probably discussed on mumsnet when it happened,back in 2007

If she did kill them to hurt her ex then I hope she is jailed.

It's quite unusual for a mother to kill her children in an act of revenge against an ex - much more common for the father to do it. More often when a mother kills her children it's due to severe mental illness (believing killing them will save them from the devil for example) or the mother is under a huge amount of pressure and can no longer cope (caring alone for a disabled child).

Anyone who hurts their children to get back at a partner is despicable.

Exactly - to harm your own child goes so totally against instinct, she must have health problems. In which case she should go to hospital, not prison.

And if she is treated, I'm not sure any punishment could be as bad as the realisation of what she's done.

Kumari-Baker was found guilty by a jury of 7 women and 5 men of murdering her 2 daughters. They only took 35 minutes to come to their decision.
No comment on MN nor is it front page news (had a look at Tesco's earlier)

If a man had stabbed his 16yo daughter 39 times and his 13yo daughter 29 times and then not had the decency to at least try to kill themselves, the media circus and tinternet would have gone mad.

But of course there is no mileage in such a story. Men who kill their kids like John Hogan will be utterly condemned, whatever the circumstance.
Whereas women must of course be mentally ill and therefore blameless

Thank goodness the jury of 7 women, 5 men did the right thing.

Children killers have a terrible time in prison. As a mother who murdered her kids I think she will not be at all popular

to kill a child at all is dispicable but she refuses to give her motiv for this course of action and instead has allowed the thought that it was to spite her husband stand.
her lack of dispute to these claims makes me belive they are probably not too far from the truth.

that is not mental illness, its just pure evil.

i hope she rots in jail for a very long time with lots of very nasty people

Pure narcissism, by the sound of it. Very unusual for a family annhialator to be female, but I guess it happens.

To be fair, men are usually deemed mentally ill too. That fella who chucked a child off a balcony is walking free now, I think.

I've been following this in my local paper and have been really surprised that it hasn't had any national coverage.

Utterly incomprehensible crime. Pleased to see that she's been sentenced.

TheWolf there has indeed been national coverage. I've been trying to avoid this story. What can one say? It's utterly heartbreaking and abhorrent. What was going through that woman's mind God help her?

Apparently she has been sentanced to serve a minimum of 33 years, and the judge wasnt convinced by her claims to have been mentally ill "Your defence of diminished responsibility was flimsy and unsubstantial. You knew quite well what you were doing and you were not mentally ill."
BBC news

I'm really no sure what this point is that certain posters are trying to make about this not getting press coverage.

The amount of space give to any story on any given day is dictated by other events. But I have seen plenty of coverage of this case in the national press and on TV.

Many, many more men than women commit acts of violence and murder on their children and wives/partners.

Women murderers and those guilty of other crimes are routinely vilified to a much greater degree than their male counterparts. See Myra Hyndley and the girl who was the girlfreind of Ian Huntley (can't remember her name).

I am NOT in any way defending any of these women, btw.

squeaver have you feeling for these girl as their mother was stabbing them again and again?

What in my post makes you think that I don't?

Woman is clearly wicked. But Squeaver's right - it's interesting that she got such a long sentence. Doubt you could find any British male family annihilators who got 33 years. They usually manage to blame the (ex) wife for provoking them.

Mentally ill or not you should still serve the time for killing someone, as with Hogan, he deliberately went off his meds even though he knew the outcome, killed his son, tried to kill his daughter and is now free, who's to say he wont go off his meds again and d it to someone else's child?

Mentally ill should not be a get out of jail free card, it should mean life in a psych hospital, or 'if' they suddenly recover, as with Hogan, transfer them to prison.

Personally I prefer the death penalty for child killers,I know if soemone killed my child the police had better get to them before I do.

apparantly she was assessed and was not mentally ill

IMO anyone who kills their own children is mentally ill .
However, who am I to comment? I have never been in that kind of mental anguish. They are my world.

I kissed my ds on the head tonight and held him close for a moment just thinking about it.

what lavenderkate says

not all judges might understand the nuances of personality disorder and mental illness.

There was psychiatric evidence presented to the court that said that this woman was not mentally ill:

BBC news

I'm concerned by the idea that because this woman killed her children that someone would say that she is therefore mentally ill. Mental illness is diagnosed on the basis of the symptoms that the person has, and to say that solely because of what this woman has done she is 'mentally ill' IMO is quite insulting to people with mental health conditions, the vast majority of whom are not violent.

If you say that she is mentally ill, what mental illness do you think she is suffering from?

PND perhaps? Little understood even amongst mental health professionals oftentimes.

Sorry tiger,
really didnt think I was being offensive. You're quite right.
But surely there are many different types of mental illness?

please explain?

Stripey's right. It is illogical and wrong to work back from 'person does a bad thing' to 'they must be mentally ill'. It is one possible explanation amongst others. Perfectly sane people do bad things for which they are fully responsible all the time.

However, still leaves the point about different treatment of men and women.

I think the girls were rather old for PND to be a factor tbh.