Primary Education is Deficient

[scienceteacher]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7896751.stm

I have thought this for a while.

There is too much emphasis on literacy and numeracy, which is squeezing subjects out of the curriculum. There is also too much emphasis on targets, and knowledge is devalued.

What was wrong with the old Topic system?

The old topic system is coming back! At least it is in my LEA.
Things will go full circle.
Getting rid of SATs and teaching to the test would be the most helpful thing.

I started primary teaching in 2002 and my school in Hampshire taught the topic system - just depends on how free thinking the head is really.

Don't think it needed a massive study to say that too much emphasis is put on numeracy and literacy, just ask any primary teacher!

Abolishing SATs would be a great step forward IMO.

This is the latest report, for the other reports (some equally damning) go here: www.primaryreview.org.uk/

The government should stop interfering, the Literacy Hour was a failure-although no one involved in implementing it actually comes out and says it didn't work!
You don't see how a plant is growing by constantly digging it up to look at the roots and it is the same with children!
I am older than a lot of people on here and so was teaching before the National Curriculum. There was a lot wrong with the old system but we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater!
While a schools success depends on the results of tests at 11, and those tests are put into a league table,schools will teach to the test. Year 6 are doing SATs revision day in and day out at the moment (with some extra boosting for those who need it to get level 4)and once we reach the second half of May they will relax and do the 'fun' things.
Over 3 months later secondary schools will wonder why they have gone 'backwards'.It is madness!
My area has very good schools and so they are being allowed more freedom to do what works for them and everyone is happier.
I hate the method where a child has to jump through a hoop at the 'right' time. If you are doing division and they don't get it you leave it because the curriculum says that you are onto 3D shape and they will have another go at division next time around! I would rather take the time and do more on division. I also think that infants should just be free to write and not start learning how to write in different genres before they have mastered the basics. I could go on and on.

i think most parent's know this anyway already. hardly news. about time they (whoever they are) took severe notice.

Topic thing is definitely on the come back with some schools doing pilos, etc. Each opic ends with a "big write" session of totally indendent writing.

This report sounds like typical academic, leftie liberal psychobabble to me.

Children are "empowered" by being taught how to read, proven to be via phonics, and by leaning other core subjects including maths. Watering all this down by mixing teaching into "themes" lets down the most vulnerable children who don't have the support at home.

I'm very surprised to see scienceteacher supporting this report. I visited some friends whose dd is at a top London prep school recently and her timetable was pinned to the wall. It was extremely traditional, with all the usual subjects- science, French, English, history, all separately taught. No doubt the school has plenty of projects to mix and share the different subjects, but they focus on key subjects first and foremost which is right imo.

I think that you will find that if it is a 'top London prep school'they will have been extremely selective in their choice of pupil and they can cope with the very academic timetable. It simply wouldn't work with those of average or lesser ability. The state primary has to cope with a huge range within one classroom and one size doesn't suit all. The problem at the moment is that the government is telling schools that children should be at a certain standard by a certain age-some children won't be and some children will be well beyond it.

My children are at a state primary and enjoy working towards Sats. Personally, I think it raises the game for everyone and encourages teachers to seek the best from all their pupils. In my son's school, it is the children not doing so well that sit on the smallest tables (in groups of 4) and have the most help. I don't wish any young children to feel like failures because they are not so good at the core academic subjects, but targets are not always a bad thing. My friend's dd will probably not do too well in her first Sats, but she is already showing signs of being exceptional at art and will hopefully have the chance to shine at this as she gets older (but learning core skills such as reading in the meantime).

I think we all wonder that scienceteacher. My SIL left teaching because she found it so demoralising having to stick to the script all the time. If a child asked a question that would have led off at an intesting tangent they couldn't follow it. So by neccessity the education she felt she could offer was narrower than she wanted it to be.

WIth my DC I have taken the tack that the school will teach them 'the basics' and DH and more or less responsible for the extra more interesting stuff.

They must be among the few that are enjoying working towards them!
Primary schools have always taught core subjects and always will. It encourages teachers to seek the best from their pupils to pass a very narrow test and if it isn't needed for the test you don't need it!
Being one of the old school I believe that the old fashioned comprehension test where you answer the questions in sentences is valuable, but I have been told that it isn't necessary because the SATs reading test asks for words to be circled or have one word answers etc.
I would say that the biggest thing wrong with primary education today is that children no longer think for themselves-they expect to be told what to do.

I was a bit confused by this news item when I watched it.

On the one had they are saying there is too much emphasis on reading writing and maths leading up to SATs exams and to the exclusion of other subjects. Then on the other hand we are seeing many more children coming out of primary school unable to read write and do maths even to a basic level.

Too much or too little teaching of the core subjects?

I am confused

'My SIL left teaching because she found it so demoralising having to stick to the script all the time. If a child asked a question that would have led off at an intesting tangent they couldn't follow it.'

Exactly-there is no time! If a child doesn't get it there is no time! You go relentlessly on to the next thing.

'Too much or too little teaching of the core subjects? '

I would say just tackling it in the wrong way.

The government are always saying that class size doesn't matter, but to me as a teacher it is the one thing that makes a huge difference. If I was paying for education I would be paying for small class sizes. If they are big classes TA support is the answer. I recently went to a school with 3 TAs in my literacy lesson-it was fantastic-every child was engaged in the lesson.

My dd is still pre-school but I was very interested in this report.
I can't help but feel that "the teaching to the test" produced by SATs is both not a helpful indicator of either a child's true interests nor abilities and in addition it risks disengaging them in education at a very early age if their is no time for their interests to be pursued/questions answered.

I would much prefer a broader based curriculum but with attention given to literacy and numeracy in all topics rather than in isolation.

Literacy and numeracy should be taught across the curriculum, not as discrete subjects in their own right.

Children should be able to learn literacy through history, geography etc. It must be so incredibly dull for many pupils to just read and interpret little stories over and over.

One of the frustrations as a senior school teacher is when you come across children who are unable to transfer skills from one subject to another. I'm not sure if this is a new thing (from children brought up since the literacy hour, or from the instant gratification playstation generation), or if it was the same when I was in school in the 1970s.

I suspect that a lot of teachers don't like Sats (or any kind of national testing), but that doesn't necessarily make them a bad thing for the child.

I think it comes from the fact that they don't have to think for themselves scienceteacher.
I know that many authors are very frustrated at the way literacy is taught and hate the way that their books are used.

sorry -frustrated by.

Another thing that I think is wrong about our approach nowadays is that 'knowledge' isn't valued (ie rote learning of facts), and everything is geared towards higher learning goals (understanding, application etc).

However, in the hierarchy of learning, knowledge is the foundation of everything else and you are not likely to successful in the higher learning goals if you don't acquire the lower ones.

But the books my son brings home for "literacy" are about all kinds of things to do with history (Gunpowder Plot, Fire of London), geography, science etc. Aren't most books about a whole range of "transferable" subjects?

Likewise "numeracy" these days is much wider than the straight arithmatic of my (private) school days- it's all real life stuff to do with money, shapes, cooking measurements etc plus a new focus on working things out mentally which I think is good.

Also, I'm not sure about scienceteacher's comment about senior school teaching as it seems to me this very quickly narrows down into structured areas leading to GCSE and A level exams.

Also in the hierarchy of learning, isn't reading and writing the foundation of everything else? Even a maths genius isn't going to do very well if he can't read the questions.

My dd is learning to read at the moment, and some of the books she has been given are frankly a waste of words and paper. I agree with you Scienceteacher that literacy and numeracy should be taught through the whole curriculum.

I think the constant watching and testing is detrimental to both teachers and pupils.

It's a pity that teachers are barely allowed to teach.

The DS's infant school while still have the literacy and numeracy time (I think) also do stress that the other subjects they study also help them improve these skills, and how they're often learning their literacy or numeracy while doing other subjects.

Surely anyone whose kids are in the primary system could have told them that!! When will they get rid of this falacy that parents like SATs, and that SATs are any use at all at primary level. As someone else said, as long as SATs are used as the basis of the (IMHO crummy) league tables, then you can understand schools teaching to them.