Primary Education is Deficient

[scienceteacher]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7896751.stm

I have thought this for a while.

There is too much emphasis on literacy and numeracy, which is squeezing subjects out of the curriculum. There is also too much emphasis on targets, and knowledge is devalued.

What was wrong with the old Topic system?

"Literacy and numeracy should be taught across the curriculum, not as discrete subjects in their own right.

Children should be able to learn literacy through history, geography etc. It must be so incredibly dull for many pupils to just read and interpret little stories over and over."

I do not recognise this as something which happens in primary schools. It sounds most bizarre. Is this really happening in English primary schools?

But Stewie, do you really recognise this as something which currently happens in primary schools? That piece that you quoted from st which you strongly agree with?

You live in Scotland, do you not? I would be extremely surprised - and very doubtful - if you said to me that this goes on in the primary schools near you.

Wasn't the criticism really to do with the narrowness of the curriculum.... and the fact that children are taught entirely to the tests.

It's a shame state education is so joyless but I hope someone sits up and takes notice and changes things for the better.

We look at all genres in reading and writing. We focus on public speaking in Listening and Talking. We focus on developing an argument in Discursive Essays.

What do you base your comments on, stewie, that these things do not take place across primary schools in Scotland?

Primary age chilren learn best when they are having fun - the SATs curriculum is the opposite of fun.

yep, agree sats sound awful. But we don't have sats in Scotland. Our curriculum is very different so I assume stewie is talking about the English one only.

Wales doesn't have them either.

If you have children at primary school and you want the curriculum to change, then you need to take direct action.

Mumsnetters with primary aged children who are sitting SATs this year could keep their children off school on the morning of the Maths SAT. And contact your local paper and tell them why and publicise it amongst other parents at school.

oo yes, swedes! campaign, people

The context of this thread, Pointy, is to do with English primary schools, not Scottish.

You seem to be very confident of the forthcoming success of ACfE.

There was a huge push for thematic teaching (again, as these things are always cyclical) about four years ago or so. And it has been pushed ever since then.

Thematic teaching is happening across most of the primary schools I know of and I agree that ACfE further promotes this method.

Secondary teachers moan about the poor;y educated children coming to them from primary and academics moan about the poorly educated people coming to them from secondary. It was ever thus.

A lot of this seems to be unsubstantiated criticisms.

And I know that, st, but stewie brought Scottish schools into it.

Karise the Mum of DD year 2- says she's fed up with DD having the independence & innitiative driven out of her & wishes school could teach the children that learning can be fun. DD's school teaches them things are about 'work' doing comprehension & minute maths tests, and 'play' meaning they should all be little clones & like the same things so that the girls can get on with the girls & the boys with the boys in the playground .
At no point is work ever described as interesting or playtime as socialising!
Karise the Music Teacher- says she's fed up with having to spoon feed pupils with no imagination who think that if anything is difficult you sould give up (like note reading).
All of these problems could be solved by smaller class sizes & banning tests! Teachers cannot even remember how to teach a receptive child anymore, they are too worried about completing the next exercise!

Pointy,

I think it is always interesting to hear about Scottish schools given that the universal criticism of the English system is to do with Sats.

I went through the Scottish system myself and the way it was in the 70s and 80s (did my Highers in 82) suited me very well. However, when I reflect on my education from a teacher perspective, it wouldn't have suited many pupils.

I know a lot has changed in recent years, and I cannot get my head around the different Standard Grades (we just did O-grade, take it or leave it).

I absolutely loved school and was successful there. However, my three older siblings did not fare well. My sister did get some Highers but did not fulfil her potential and that has followed her throughout life. My brothers, I believe, were basically non-attenders. My father couldn't contemplate a fourth failure, so I went to an independent school in the city - for which I am personally very grateful. Given my cousins' experience at other Edinburgh schools, my siblings were fairly typical, sadly.

Where I work and have worked 'topic' is is de rigeur, although it is now called cross curricular. It is a more accessible/motivating approach for primary aged pupils IMO.

oh yes, blackrock, you cannot move for people talking about cross-curricular.

I have mixed feelings on this one. I think the national curriculum is far too prescriptive, and that teachers move too quickly from theme to theme particularly in maths. However, there are some things about the national curriculum that I really like. I like the fact that children cover similar topics at a certain age. eg. children in year 2 do Florence Nightingale and the Fire of London. My dd's can discuss what they are learning at school with friends from other schools and it is broadly similar.

When I was at primary school in the late 70's/early 80's the topic system was big. I remember in class after class I did projects on dinosaurs. Every teacher wanted to do dinosaurs and they did not take into account that our class had already done them two years running. The national curriculum prevents this. I also remember the pleasure I got from transferring to secondary school where the work was more formal and I could quantify what I had learnt each day. (I was quite a geeky child ). I am not sure I would like to see a return to the education of the 70's.

The thing about the national curriculum which makes me tear my hair out is that it assumes all children are at a similar level. I remember my dd1 getting very agitated in year 1 about clocks. It transpired that she could not clearly identify the numbers 1-12, getting 6 and 9 muddled. What chance did she have to tell the time?

IMO the poor teachers have to fit too much in. but seeing as that is the case.. it is therefore my job to know what and how the school is teaching and support at home. going over anything that the dc's don't get..
But I think the system is not fair on teachers nor on the pupils..I think 99% of teachers would be best left to get on with what they do best.. which is teach.

My primary children seem to do topics. Romans, ancient Egyptians, Time, Castles, Space travel, the environment. Similar to my experience in the 70s in many ways.

(Madsometimes, we read Ian Serralier's Silver Sword 5 times in primary school, with different teachers and supply teachers. I really did get bored of that book.)

As a previous head of year 7 I am very aware of the failures of the SATS, however there is a lot of variance in the state sector. Often successful schools who do not feel the need to jump through hoops to keep OFSTED of their back do depart from a narrow numeracy and literacy curriulum. My dd is in year 2 and does lots of preject work and is blissfully unaware of SATS.

I do think education generally is going back to projects and cross curricular both at primary and secondary.

i do agree about making children jump through hoops though to keep the schools place in league tables.

Pristina, Sats have nothing whatsoever to do with educating children and are merely an accountability target for teachers and schools.

All part of the dumbing down of education into target driven administration.