HOW MANY MORE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE BEFOR THE GOVERMENT WILL ADMIT

[2shoes]

they just havn't got a clue.
It just gets more tragic by the week.
when will the goverment act an make the punishment fit the crime.
saw Bens sister on tv calling for national service. but not sure that would help. and why should well behaved youngsters have to be treated thesame as the bad ones.
Just ranting a bit as it is all getting scarey.

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7486769.stm web site here]]

Im inclined to think that a couple of years doing sometinhg constructive might just be what some young people need - sort the wheat from the chaff iykwim, get some of them back on the right road >

I agree 2shoes...tis v scarey place we are living in

I might be wrong but it seems like scaremongering through the media - are there really more deaths like this than ever before? Surely there are more likely causes of death in teenagers that we can do something about more easily, e.g. road deaths?

well lets hope if they do ever bring it back that ds will be too old.
I can't see it happening as the goverment won't even admit the problem has got worse.

I think there's a lot to be said for national service actually.

I grew up in a country where all boys did two years national service and this kind of crime just didn't exist. Neither did these attitudes from young lads - they learned respect and grew up.

I think the life skills picked up, as well as the discipline and hopefully respect values, could be the making of some young adults

yes but..... there are lots of good kids out there. why should they suffer cos of the bad ones.

17 people dead through violent crime in London alone - in 7 months?

Something has to give. What, I don't know, but it certainly gives credence to those calling for National Service, doesn't it?

I don't know if they still do it in Holland, but I know they used to - and they have a much lower crime rate than in the UK for violent crime. Whether that's just because there's less people, I don't know.

Is it because young people in the capital feel so disenfranchised? Are they bored? Why, why does this happen, this senseless death? Totally agree with you though 2Shoes - the government needs to stand up and take notice of this growing problem.

I mean if your not working, not studying for no other good reason than pure bone idleness, then i believe that this could be a reicpe for disaster.....idle hands and all that, these old sayings make sense!!!!

I think these youngsters should be given a purpose anda reason, make them feel valued and let them do sometihng productive

Perhaps there could be a choice between National Service or something like working for Medical Corps - like contentious objectors in the 2WW?

I'm sorry but bringing back National Service ain't going to happen and, as the mother of a son, I do not think that this is a bad thing. The idea that it is somehow a pancea for all social ills is just a right wing fantasy IMO.

Knife crime is a problem though and it scares the shit out of me. There may not be more deaths from knife crime but they are happenning in younger kids. I can't help thinking that a combination of tough sanctions but also trying to help children find an alternative to gang culture is the answer. Easier said than done I know.

Also ( and I know this is going to be controversial) Janet Street Porter in The Indie this morning asked ahy a 16 year old was out at 2am. I certainly wasn't at that age and that was a long time ago.

Apparently, London has more crime now than New York - if they can turn around New York then surely there must be some hope for London and other big cities?

Parents don't care from birth, very violent games, violence on tv, fail at school, grim housing even when it's improved it's smashed up - all this leads to what we have now - criminals on the streets.

Get these yobs & their parents into community work - make it compulsory for all.

ikwym 2shoes tis a dilema...but does some sort of system have to be a bad thing..ie punishment???

I think if the tories put a motion forward for bringing in national service to stop the social decline happening in the country today most people would vote for them - I would.

Makes me wonder how much youth crime there is in countries where they have national service there is? I mean being disciplined by a military court is shit loads more frightening than having your wrist slapped by some leftie judge!

I think there's no ambition for a lot of these kids actually - they can't see a future for themselves so they don't see the point of going to college, they can't get any work (not much work to be had in the capital if you're unqualified and under 21, really - and if there is then the minimum wage is beyond a joke) so they turn to crime to fund their lifestyle. Because - let's face it - a 16/17 year old still has living expenses such as mobile phone credit, clothing, make up (for girl's), Oyster card etc etc and if your parents can't give you anything then where are you going to get your money from?

So crime leads to a gang lifestyle - drugs, mindless violence, trying to make yourself harder than everyone else - which in turn leads to tragedies like poor Ben.

Perhaps there should be a system in place whereby if you don't have a job, or go to college you have to do National Service for 2 years? Or would that breed resentment?

I agree that the punishment should fit the crime.

At the moment, most criminals know that their human rights will be unheld to almost stupid degrees... they have nothing to lose.

Oh heavens, not the old 'let's bring back national service' line again. Hasn't this been done a thousand times before, ever since they abolished it?

I'm not sure it makes much sense, tbh - trying to stop violence by teaching young men how to use guns. But at any rate, it is not going to happen.

community service is the way to go imho

My mates in Greece have a great time doing nnational service for the most part.

You can put it off while you study
a doctor friend did his after he qualified and went in as a doc.

other mate is now a very goood table tennis player

I sort of like the idea - but not the killing bit!

I suggest you read David Lodge's novel about National Service, 'Ginger, you're barmy'. It convey very well, I understand, the sheer bloody pointless waste and humiliation of two years which a lot of the people submitted to it experienced.

Should it be introduced here, and girls be included, I would seriously look at any feasible loophole and/or emigration.

So, edam and MI - i do agree with you, sort of. and I don't think I like the idea of NS either - it doesn't sit well with anything I've ever believed.

But what, then, is the "answer"?

Someone has been stabbed to death every night in London since sunday, it's not just an issue for the youth.
Clearly not may people were staying in watching the disarming britain season.

I have no answers, who does?

Teaching them to use the guns isn't so they can kill people it is a way of instilling discipline and routine and some self respect that they can actually do something correctly.

Any fucking idiot can pull a trigger can't they!

the answer is community service