HOW MANY MORE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE BEFOR THE GOVERMENT WILL ADMIT

[2shoes]

they just havn't got a clue.
It just gets more tragic by the week.
when will the goverment act an make the punishment fit the crime.
saw Bens sister on tv calling for national service. but not sure that would help. and why should well behaved youngsters have to be treated thesame as the bad ones.
Just ranting a bit as it is all getting scarey.

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7486769.stm web site here]]

well what about a new version of national service...but without the guns etc...do away with the dads army type of thing

Teach em how to cool, clean , run a house, sort out finanaces etc etc, make shelves, make a guinea pig house.

Oh i dont know, give them a purpose, but make it compulsory for those able but not willing to do anything else

I voted for this government, so I am not a right winger, BUT, I can't help wondering if the rise in violent crime among teenagers is the flip side to a more left wing, permissive society that believes in rehabilitation rather than punishment for crime? (As do I really, but does it work?)

One that has meddled and fussed with the education system in order to get kids into uni whether they are academic or not in order to make themselves look good ("we aim to get 50% of all young people to university" - why?) thus devaluing those who are not academic and who would be better off working, and leading them to find other ways to feel important in their peer groups. Like, carrying a big knife and murdering each other.

And what about the way the government bangs on about "hard working families"? What,parents working hard to pay more tax so that junior ministers can pay the childminder to answer the phone? While their own kids are out doing god knows what after school?

Where's all the subsidised/free childcare for these hardworking families?

This government acts as if it is trying to win a popularity contest, and just can't seem to find the balls to take control. They make you feel like Pol Pot's slightly more horrible cousin for not recycling your bean cans or driving a 4x4, but little sods who burgle houses or beat people up or nick cars get not much more than a slap on the rest and a big dose of understanding.

Not an expert on this, and I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to point out exactly where I am wrong, but those are just my (admittedly rambling) thoughts on the matter.

It would help if the government would support community groups and charities more rather than ploughing money into stop and search police work.

Kids company, founded by Camila Batmanghelidjh, an inspirational woman does amazing work, but they were threatened with closure. She remortgaged her house for the cause.

Slap on the wrist

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ive-got-kids-who-sleep-with-knives-under-their-pillows-834553.ht ml

This is a good article

Many of these young people have proably come from disadvanted backgrounds and have been in 'trouble' way before the age of 16 or whatever.

There's a group of kids who hang round the streets near me - they are street wise at around 9.

but they do community service now!! It doesn't seem to be working.

And there are several government incentives to get them into college but even if they do go to college they're still in that gang culture.

We need to eliminate the gang culture mentality - and part of that (I believe) is changing social perceptions towards young people. I think the way NY sorted it out was through zero tolerance, wasn't it? Plus of course their police force have handguns... I can't see that as a long term solution tbh.

DWP - i've not been watching the Disarming Britain season, ds has been a little sod challenging at bedtime!!

Camila Batmanghelidjh is a hero, but unfortunately what she does will never become widespread because it is expensive, time consuming, requires commitment and passion and will never make her rich.

There aren't enough public figures with these priorities.

I'd be happy to pay more tax if it went to causes like hers. Unfortunately it pays for five-a-day officers and new fitted kitchens in MPs second homes. Pah.

didn't know this dryad - is it compulosory for all youths to help in community projects??? Nope

Twinkie, of course the whole point of a gun is to kill, what on earth do you think they are for?

From what I've read, the Army found national service a huge imposition, being landed with thousands of teenagers they neither wanted nor needed.

I don't know what the answer is to youth crime but I doubt very much national service is it. There were moral panics about knife crime in the 50's when national service was current (teddy boys and flick knives).

I really don't think we can blame "the Government" for all this. Of course gov policy will have an affect, but in the end its OUR sons and daughters who are shooting other kids, society as a whole has to take more responsibility for all this. I find it really sad that there are parts of our society where the life of a child is worth so little.

What is this constant tosh about the media hyping things up?

They report what's there. They're not making it up.

There are feral gangs of young people roaming the streets of the UK, and everyone wants to stick their head in the sand and claim it's not really happening.

Well, it is.

Government policy has a huge effect. Huge. They impact on everything from education, to the criminal justice system, to the economy, the welfare state, the health service, everything.

They set the tone of the nation. They do. Think about the Labour government of the seventies, and all the strikes,powercuts, etc. The yuppies of the Tory eighties - and the unemployed. The way students in the eighties hated Thatcher and became politicised and angry, and left wing. Which leads us to where we are now.

I think we can look to the conditions those in power are putting in place. I really do.

thought Brooke kinsella came across as a sweet girl desperately searching for answers.
fact is the life of the attacker is ruined too. And these are kids. Failed by someone,something or society.
I guess London is different to lots of places and it has been said that if knives were banned then they'd find something else. Like jimmy mizen, killed by a shard of glass.
I think what Brooke kinsella meant was that if boys want to fight, go fight for something real.
my cousin was on verge of ruining his life fighting, when boxing coach discovered him, offered him a chance if he straightened up. He was targettted for olympics when special army recruiters invited him to fast track to combat.
so he did, he says it has given him, security, respect, morals and humility as well as respect for his own family..
He may well be dead had he not had that chance.

I don't think the answer is more legislation from above or imposing something like NS on the offenders and their innocent counterparts.

At the risk of really being contentious, I find it a bit that it has suddenly become a big issue - I don't see how this has gone from almost being unreported to suddenly top of the agenda? Are we meant to believe that this has suddenly broadsided the police, those dealing with the gangs and the bullied youngsters as to the scale of the problem?

I am amused with the ideas of national service as some sort of big benevolent father who will set the wayward children on a righteous path

seriously do you think that is the answer?

I grew up in an army family in a country where national service was the norm, really do not recommend

wasabipeanut on Thu 03-Jul-08 12:30:55
I'm sorry but bringing back National Service ain't going to happen and, as the mother of a son, I do not think that this is a bad thing. The idea that it is somehow a pancea for all social ills is just a right wing fantasy IMO.

Knife crime is a problem though and it scares the shit out of me. There may not be more deaths from knife crime but they are happenning in younger kids. I can't help thinking that a combination of tough sanctions but also trying to help children find an alternative to gang culture is the answer. Easier said than done I know.

Also ( and I know this is going to be controversial) Janet Street Porter in The Indie this morning asked ahy a 16 year old was out at 2am. I certainly wasn't at that age and that was a long time ago.

VERY WELL SAID AND GOOD POINTS

cups - but if you impose compulsory community service on all youths aged 16-18 (??) are you not going to have the same issues as with community service? And how would you force young people to do it?

Just read the article DWP linked to, and it's made me very sad. So someone's found the answer, found a solution - and yet is so grossly underfunded she can't do the programs she would want to. I, too, would happily pay more tax if it went towards programs like these. But it won't - it'll go towards tax breaks for big businesses and paying for the enormous and costly war we're currently involved (which most of the British public didn't want)

as national service, sorry. Ds refusing to nap. Again...

And - actually - reading what people have been posting here, and reading that article, no i agree. National Service would absolutely not work IMO.

What has changed then in parenting in the last 10-20 years? Surely there was always an "underclass" of children with drug addicted parents, alcoholic parents, abusive parents, who went under SS' radar? Why have they suddenly become so violent that they would kill?

and kids company do sterling work and deserve support yet they struggle every year with lack of funding
.
these days an approach which isn't primarily punitive does not chime with general public opinion, it is a real shame, so many lives destroyed on all sides

Genuine question: would compulsory National Service involve those drafted in going to war, if there was one?

(I'm not in favour on general principles, btw).

there are not any more murders than there were before.

the press has decided to focus on knife and gun crime.

punishment is no way forward (death penalty, the ultimate punishment, doesn't work to deter criminals!)

tackling poverty, giving young people somewhere to go and something to do, constructive plans are the way forward.

I hate listening to the news now, I just know it's going to start with 'snother young person stabbed to death' etc.....